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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think someone MUST be profiting from private nurseries?

163 replies

SprinkleofSpringShowers · 20/05/2024 06:06

Nursey saying that the free hours cripple them. My bill has gone down by £200 from £940 to £720 for the 15 free hours. My child is booked for 3 days/30 hours (not that he’s ever there 30 hours) I don’t really understand how they are struggling so much when any shortfall in the funding is just made up by parents.

The branch we use charges £73 a day now. They’ve open two new sites in the last year. Can’t be doing that badly can they?

Also think it’s really poor taste when they seem to pedal this image they’re struggling and the staff are likely paid NMW and the directors turn up in 2 year old Porsches.

OP posts:
SprinkleofSpringShowers · 20/05/2024 07:00

Nursery is my biggest expense after my mortgage. I’m allowed to be critical of a
service I pay handsomely for.

OP posts:
EmilyTheCriminal · 20/05/2024 07:00

It's entirely possible that the expensive cars mentioned above were a gift, bought with inheritance, bought with partner's money etc.

PoppingTomorrow · 20/05/2024 06:58

bluetopazlove · 20/05/2024 06:29

To be honest they are not a public service .. you choose to use it so .maybe pick a fight with the government .

They are not a publicly-owned service but not difficult to argue that they are a public service, much like care homes.

If nurseries disappeared overnight productivity would plummet (as in March 2020)

SprinkleofSpringShowers · 20/05/2024 06:57

VestibuleVirgin · 20/05/2024 06:56

Stop moaning about something you don't have all the facts for then

I’m not moaning that they make a profit, I’m moaning they try and pedal a myth that they don’t.

OP posts:
Meadowfinch · 20/05/2024 06:57

Op, I think once you look at the cost of salaries, pensions, business rents, business rates and insurance, you will have your answer.

Very few running nurseries will be making vast profits. It is a high effort, low income business unless someone happens to own the building they operate from.

Anyone prepared to take on that sort of risk deserves a little profit.

For example have you seen how difficult it is to get a mortgage if you are self employed? How many years accounts showing a consistent profit you need. The higher interest rates charged. You are not fair.

VestibuleVirgin · 20/05/2024 06:56

SprinkleofSpringShowers · 20/05/2024 06:54

I don’t like other people’s kids. I have my own business affairs thanks and I’m not kidding anyone I do it out the goodness of my heart.

Stop moaning about something you don't have all the facts for then

GuinnessBird · 20/05/2024 06:56

Absolutely some do make a profit, some are paid in excess of £100K a term just for funded hours, that's before the top up fee's are added on.

SprinkleofSpringShowers · 20/05/2024 06:55

@DivergentTris during Covid my husbands business folded and we were still paying a nursery bill for a period of time. It wasn’t unique for nurseries.

OP posts:
SprinkleofSpringShowers · 20/05/2024 06:54

VestibuleVirgin · 20/05/2024 06:52

Set up your own nursery if it's such a gold mine
Indeed, why isn't everyone jumping onto this gold-laden band-wagon?

I don’t like other people’s kids. I have my own business affairs thanks and I’m not kidding anyone I do it out the goodness of my heart.

OP posts:
DivergentTris · 20/05/2024 06:53

SprinkleofSpringShowers · 20/05/2024 06:38

I’m not disputing the fact they’re a business. I’m just pointing out that their claims they’re struggling etc aren’t accurate and in poor taste given the cost of childcare to working partners and the climate right now!

People run businesses to turn a profit, they can do this and still struggle to balance the rising costs of utilities/rents etc, wages against keeping prices fair and turning a profit. It is a juggling act. They than have struggles with managing the people they serve and employ, often some are offended they turn a profit, think they have larger profit margins than they do, and think they should forfeit the profits and pass it on to them.
I ran a business for 12 years and some people's views were very ill-informed.

During covid we didn't turn a profit at all, all our equity was being used for the luxury of staying open and paying the bills/wages etc as people still needed fuel etc put footfall was down and costs remained the same. It was a big struggle seeing the money we worked for paying for everything, we nearly lost it all and had nothing to show for years of hard work, stress etc for the benefit of our staff and customers, no one recognised this and if it was pointed out some actually said well that's what you get when you run your own business, you must be loaded anyway.

Long winded post, but my point is I hear opinions like that in the OP and I do get a bit defensive as I have been on the receiving end of opinions like this and even when things are explained it still remains a mystery to them as they have never put their homes, income and general life on the line to go out on their own to run a business meaning if it goes wrong they can loose everything.

VestibuleVirgin · 20/05/2024 06:52

SprinkleofSpringShowers · 20/05/2024 06:49

Yes our nursery has room leads and then junior staff.

Set up your own nursery if it's such a gold mine
Indeed, why isn't everyone jumping onto this gold-laden band-wagon?

SprinkleofSpringShowers · 20/05/2024 06:52

HDready · 20/05/2024 06:51

School preschool won’t need to charge a top up because they are only open term time. The funded 15/30 hours are term time only, so most families are stretching that over the full year. Our 15 hours a week becomes 11 when spread over the 51 weeks a year nursery is open.

That’s not strictly true. School preschool can still only take the funded hours which are paid at around £4.25 per hour whereas mine is £7.30 an hour BEFORE funding.

OP posts:
Genevieva · 20/05/2024 06:52

They are only meant to charge for add-ons, not use the free hours funding to subsidise the standard day rate.

That said, you have highlighted a disparity. Government subsidises private pre-schools, private SEN schools and companies incorporated as charities that offer tertiary education (universities). They even fund Academies and multi academy trusts, which are free to the user, but often short of funds at the classroom level while directors, like your nursery owner, drive porches. The only type of education they don’t subsidise is mainstream private education. It’s crackers really. If we as parents were given a voucher and could choose where to spend it, it might focus the minds of the porche driving directors a bit.

HDready · 20/05/2024 06:51

SprinkleofSpringShowers · 20/05/2024 06:11

That hasn’t escaped me. My point is they must be solvent than they let on and less vulnerable to the free hours. Parents make up the shortfall, so whatever they don’t collect from funded hours is still paid - so how can it create the deficit we’re told it does?

The school preschool doesn’t charge top up for funded hours so I can see why they might struggle more, but private nurseries just seem to be pedalling a myth.

School preschool won’t need to charge a top up because they are only open term time. The funded 15/30 hours are term time only, so most families are stretching that over the full year. Our 15 hours a week becomes 11 when spread over the 51 weeks a year nursery is open.

Sunshinedaytoday · 20/05/2024 06:49

Our bill has gone up by £200 a month to take into account the reduction when the free hours kick in. So when we get those, bill will be the same. £1700 a month for one child.

But I actually see no evidence of big profits. Building is a bit tired. Lots of toys are second hand from parents. Staff walk to work/ get the bus.

SprinkleofSpringShowers · 20/05/2024 06:49

Pin0cchio · 20/05/2024 06:47

@Plmoknijbuhv

Most have a hefty chunk of staff under 21 who are not paid full minimum wage. Some will have a constant stream of 17/18 year old trainees earning far less - a 16/17 year old or apprentice is on only £6.40/hour and an 18-20 year old is on only £8.60

Yes our nursery has room leads and then junior staff.

OP posts:
SprinkleofSpringShowers · 20/05/2024 06:48

VestibuleVirgin · 20/05/2024 06:43

I'm suggesting no such thing, as you are well aware.
I am suggesting that instead of making accusations of such profiteering, you do some research and get your facts together.
You do not have to be rich to be driving a 2 year-old porsch. Plenty of 'percieved to be poor' are driving in brand new fuck-off range rovers, etc. Outward trappings of wealth are not indicator of actual wealth (or taste)

You have to have a fair amount of disposable income. I’d hazard a guess it’s atleast £1000 pcm on PCP.

OP posts:
Pin0cchio · 20/05/2024 06:47

@Plmoknijbuhv

Most have a hefty chunk of staff under 21 who are not paid full minimum wage. Some will have a constant stream of 17/18 year old trainees earning far less - a 16/17 year old or apprentice is on only £6.40/hour and an 18-20 year old is on only £8.60

SprinkleofSpringShowers · 20/05/2024 06:47

Plmoknijbuhv · 20/05/2024 06:44

In making some basic assumptions I could see how they wouldn't make much money. If a nursery worker is paid £11.50 min wage plus employer costs for that person of 15% then that is £13 an hour. Each person can look after 3 children so cost is £4.50 per hour. You pay £73 a day so £7 an hour. The remaining £2.50 an hour has to contribute to buildings, utilities, management costs, toys, food and a huge amount of other costs which will be very high given CoL. I can't see it making much money. This is also based on what you pay not what the government pay so a lot less. Like I said there is a lot of assumptions in these calculations but it give a view of how profits could easily be low

The 1-3 ratio is only for babies, it’s now 1-4 too. In the 2 year plus room it’s 1:6 and then the preschool is 1:8 or 1:13 if there’s a qualified teacher.

OP posts:
Plmoknijbuhv · 20/05/2024 06:44

In making some basic assumptions I could see how they wouldn't make much money. If a nursery worker is paid £11.50 min wage plus employer costs for that person of 15% then that is £13 an hour. Each person can look after 3 children so cost is £4.50 per hour. You pay £73 a day so £7 an hour. The remaining £2.50 an hour has to contribute to buildings, utilities, management costs, toys, food and a huge amount of other costs which will be very high given CoL. I can't see it making much money. This is also based on what you pay not what the government pay so a lot less. Like I said there is a lot of assumptions in these calculations but it give a view of how profits could easily be low

VestibuleVirgin · 20/05/2024 06:43

SprinkleofSpringShowers · 20/05/2024 06:39

Are you suggesting they run the chains for the benefit of my kid’s education? I don’t go to work out the goodness of my heart, I’m not suggesting they should but telling the end user they’re struggling to stay afloat then arriving in your bloody Porsche is in poor taste.

I'm suggesting no such thing, as you are well aware.
I am suggesting that instead of making accusations of such profiteering, you do some research and get your facts together.
You do not have to be rich to be driving a 2 year-old porsch. Plenty of 'percieved to be poor' are driving in brand new fuck-off range rovers, etc. Outward trappings of wealth are not indicator of actual wealth (or taste)

SprinkleofSpringShowers · 20/05/2024 06:39

VestibuleVirgin · 20/05/2024 06:29

Why don't you ask them? Would save you an awful lot of speculation and satisfy your curiosity.
Of course, go with all the facts, such as how much they pay their staff (rather than assuming), how much they pay per month for rent, utilities, insurance, checks, training, equipment, food, etc, and have that total set against income from parents/govt.
Then you can really tell them what's what about running a nursery and profiteering from it

Are you suggesting they run the chains for the benefit of my kid’s education? I don’t go to work out the goodness of my heart, I’m not suggesting they should but telling the end user they’re struggling to stay afloat then arriving in your bloody Porsche is in poor taste.

OP posts:
SprinkleofSpringShowers · 20/05/2024 06:38

I’m not disputing the fact they’re a business. I’m just pointing out that their claims they’re struggling etc aren’t accurate and in poor taste given the cost of childcare to working partners and the climate right now!

OP posts:
Ereyraa · 20/05/2024 06:34

A friend owns a chain of 8. She openly admits they are doing very well; staff are mostly paid min wage and she and the other owner take the rest.

Private daycare nurseries offering after and before school, as well as holiday cares

Happycow · 20/05/2024 06:33

The small chain that my DCs is part of (5 nurseries) also pleads poverty and puts up the fees by eyewatering amounts to 'cover costs'. The owner of the chain is seeing profits of > £1m a year if Companies Hse is to be believed- which im sure it can 😬