To think someone MUST be profiting from private nurseries?

Yes, care homes are very similar. I would avoid them at all costs.

Spot on here! And they moan like crazy about how skint they are while setting their prices with the wind. Experience with my grandad - "Oh he's cantankerous? That'll be an extra £100 a week"

School nurseries and private nurseries are funded differently. School nurseries get more per hour per placement. Schools don't need to pay VAT like private nurseries do. Comparing private nursery with school nursery isn't an accurate representation.

Under 2 are 1:3, 2-3 are 1:4, 3 and above are 1:8 however this doesn't take into account enhanced ratio needs for SEN.

Nurseries need to pay staff, rent/mortgage, insurances, ofsted registration, training fees, admin (computers, tablets, printers etc), run cars if doing before and after school provision or for trips out, resources and toys for the children, equipment such as climbing frames, food, food hygiene certs and training, cots, tables and chairs, buggies, books, utilities, caring for garden such as new plants, mowers etc.

My point is there is a whole host of hidden costs in running a nursery and the funding the government provides isn't enough to meet all these costs which is why many small independent nurseries are closing or concerned about running costs.

Yes just like private care homes, nursery owners are raking it in.

Not all nurseries are shouting about how poor they are.

For people who are annoyed at the owners...well we live in a free country..if you think they have it so good, why don't you start up a nursery and see how easy it is. Very easy to sit back and criticise. They might come from wealthy families, or have wealthy spouses or heaven forbid run a good business and make good money. I'm very grateful to the owner of my grandsons nursery...she runs a really good show. And my grandson benefits. I think she is wealthy but good on her. She's making a positive contribution to the area. Nobody is forced to using her nursery.

But if they didn’t charge it on they would be taking a hit. I don’t understand your point? Both nurseries my children went to have since closed down because they simply couldn’t afford to keep going.

It's the same with Nursing Home owners.

A girl I know used to work in a nursery (now works as a nanny) and she said the owners lived in amazing huge houses in the extremely nice village down the road (outskirts of Beaconsfield so not cheap!). You're not wrong at all, the money is going somewhere and it's not to the hardworking staff who look after the kids!

Sorry this is totally off topic and I hear you.

Just looking at your figures, are you sure they're correct and you're getting everything you're entitled to? By my calculations...

You use:
• 30 hours a week / 3 days per week
• 1,560 hours per year

Without gov support it costs:
• £949 per month
• £11,388 per year
• £7.30 per hour

15 hours per week free childcare:
• Term time only, 38 weeks
• Over 52 weeks = 11 hours per week
• 570 hours per year

After 15 hours free:
• 990 hours a year to pay for
• £7,227 per year = £602.25 per month

With 20% tax free childcare:
• You pay £481.80 per month
• Gov top up £120.45

I totally agree with you @anon4net when you write
".....It's shocking what low wages we accept for predominantly female professions like nursery staff and health care assistants."

The carers of the young, the old, the sick and the infirm.
The most vulnerable of us humans.

Yet people in jobs such as marketing and advertising, sales etc are highly paid in comparison.

Our values are skewed

I'm fine with paying.

What I'm not fine with, is them then pretending, it's poorly funded and needs contributions/fundraisers.

I work as a cleaner for someone who owns a private nursery and it certainly seems like they are profiting from it, massive house, luxury cars, very frequent holidays. I guess the money could come from elsewhere though.

My kids used to go to the nursery in question and I sometimes think I should start charging the owner for my holidays etc and see if she’s happy to pay (I wouldn’t really because that’s not how I run my business!)
I was always amazed how the nursery acts like it’s a charity, constantly fundraising and asking for donations of things when the owner is living a life most of the families using them could only dream of!

Totally agree op.

It's a massive scam in plain sight.

Pretending they need a raffle to raise money for "the children", whilst someone is making a huge profit.

To be clear, they are entitled to make a big profit imo. Just stop pretending they're not.

The UK has very high adult:child ratios by international standards. If you want those, you will have to pay for them.

Who is BU, me or the nursery? http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/5081267-who-is-bu-me-or-the-nursery

Look at this thread - OP is paying for nursery while on holiday (fine) but now they do not need the time away the nursery have said they cannot look after the kid but are happy to keep the money. I imagine they have rented out the spot to someone else so are being paid twice or worse have less staff on that day, possibly agency so saving money. Obviously not saving money if full time but it assuming they're dastardly. They are definitely profiting.

I know two nursery owners and one let it slip they took home 150k annually (large, private nursery) and the other who didn't see I was within earshot said they were about 40k off that but that was b/c ex-husband still got a payout b/c he helped start the nursery. Both seemed to be suggesting it wasn't a high wage for the work they do. Both drive luxury vehicles, though don't drive them to work.

I have a friend that worked for one of those nurseries and she earned pence over minimum wage the whole time, despite being deeply committed, in a senior role, not only having training but having done extra training in her own time, paid for by herself. She created some incredible programming with a local University for research around outdoor education in the early years, has been interviewed about her work and is an early literacy specialist. Truly could have run a much better centre with her eyes closed. Ended up leaving despite absolutely loving working with children, they just couldn't afford for her to stay in her role. She's now a higher band executive admin in higher education and misses working with children every day, but can now has food security for her two children. It's shocking what low wages we accept for predominantly female professions like nursery staff and health care assistants.

But even using these figures based on a 1:3 ratio, for 20 children full time, that's a £2500 gross profit per week. (£13.50mw/3 children = £4.50 COST PER CHILD > £2.50 'profit per child per hour x 10 hours x 20 children x 5 days)

Split that up in a 1:5 ratio, with 20 children - (£2.70 cost per child > £4.30 'profit' per child per hour x 10 hours x 20 children x 5 days) is £4300 gross profit per week.

Let's split the difference to include some part timers, and some better paid staff, and you're left with £3400 PER WEEK to cover everything else except wages. Rent, heating, water, lighting, nappies if you're lucky enough to be provided them, food if you're lucky enough to have your DC fed.

Again, let's say parents don't pay for 2 weeks over Christmas and you're still looking at £170,000 to pay the bills, remember just for 20 full time kids. Add in the government subsidy, extra payments from parents for food, nappies, wraparound top ups. There's got to be some big bucks going somewhere...

My guess - based on what's happening with academies and in care system for instance - is that you are not talking to the right person.
If your nursery is part of chain, it's totally possible that the nursery manager is struggling with the budget and targets they have been given. They might not see the actual profit their own setting make, or theirs is small but adds up to all the other settings to make the system lucrative.

It's similar in any private company really. My own team is being squeezed with rising costs and decreased profitability, and yet our latest corporate financial report announced a 1+ billion operating profit...

MN all about capitalism, yet here you are, frothing at the mouth because someone is making more money than you.