Is this weird

I’m really pleased you came back to the thread @isthisodd4

i hoped you would because you had realised that all of us who shared or were being direct with you were doing so exactly because we had the knowledge and experience to know without the tiniest bit of doubt how hugely important it is for this to be on your radar because the other outcome is unthinkable and the damage irreversible. But I also knew that for someone with no knowledge around this that this thread could also have been scary. It taps into that primal part most adults/parents are desperate to avoid.

im so glad to hear your response, I only wish for me as a child, for others on this thread, for my friends and the people iv worked with that other parents could have faced the challenges you are facing right now with such an open mind and so seriously. Not that I’m assigning blame to anyone except the predators in these situations of course just that we didn’t have a you and its too late for us now but not for your little one.

Sounds dodgy as hell to me. He's weird what he's doing isn't normal. Don't have any regrets OP they would last a lifetime.

A few of us have written direct and possibly disturbing replies, including those of us who were victims or rape and sexual assault when we were children, with devastating effects on our lives. including me, raped by an uncle in a relative’s house when I was very little. But @isthisodd4 I’m worried that you are frightened to go far enough.

You mentioned intending to have a quiet word with other relatives. I’m afraid that could backfire. They could easily all brush it off, tell you you’re being paranoid and silly, and that he’s just looking after him. That’s what people like to think. He actually could be innocent but clueless about what’s ok and what isn’t, but the fact is, he’s behaving exactly like a predator grooming a whole family, and the other relatives might have been completely influenced by him already.

You need to be direct, and you need all of them to hear you. Do as @Cherrysoup said:
The very next time he tries walking off with him, I’d grab your dc and ask him directly ‘Why do you keep taking dc when I’ve repeatedly told you (not asked) not to?’
and repeat as necessary. You need him to hear you, and you need others to hear you telling him. If they tell you not to be ridiculous, tell them you don’t want your child learning that it’s ok to be taken off by anyone without you or his dad knowing. You might have to stand up to the family in a way that’s more than you feel comfortable with, but it’s that courage that keeps children safe.

@isthisodd4

hi I just wanted to check in on you.

I know this thread must have been very scary for you and I wanted to check you are okay?

im sorry if my post was disturbing or direct although I stand by what I said because it’s important but for you as a parent it must have been very difficult to hear my and others replies.

This is truly creepy behaviour, and I would also be on high alert. You have gut feelings for very good reason.

@Ginkypig's absolutely right. If nothing else, @isthisodd4, you need to share the statistics and indisputed facts with your MIL, SIL, who ever is helping to potentially put your child at risk.

With my situation with the ex-married-in-inlaw, and my son, I was already hyper-vigilant of any predatory behaviour towards either one of my children - because when i was very young, my father's brother groomed and then molested me. I knew the signs to watch out for. I'd be damned if I'd be like my mother and not like to rock the family waters. I've known my ex since we were 11, he knows what I endured, and he understood when we split, that if I ever found out from our son that he'd been left alone with this bloke, I would raise Holy Hell about it and be very clear as to why.

Oh, and that's another thing to be aware of - when they tell you what vivid imaginations your kids have got. It's dressed up as a compliment, but it's actually a manipulation - they've planted a seed inside of your brain, so when your kid comes to you and says "Uncle touched me"... it's all in their imaginations! Yep. Personal experience. I was a happy, friendly, bubbly little girl until I was 7, when I abruptly became withdrawn, loathe to have people see me without clothing on, refused to wear knickers because what was the point if they "kept falling down", the whole red flag CSA bunting... my parents didn't believe me. Because he and their other brother, had convinced everyone that I was making it all up, because of my vivid imagination - and essentially convinced everyone that I was a liar who deserved to be ousted from the family (when my grandmother died - and she knew, and ensured that I, then when I had my oldest, she, too, was never left alone with him at all - his son threatened to kill me, if I turned up to her funeral... She and I were very close, spoke every other day on the phone, I visited with her only GGC, all of the time... but apparently my children and I were too insidious to be at the funeral. Really, it was him running scared because he knew I'd probably have my say and be very clear about not having him anywhere near my daughter, who was around the same age as I was when he started). I'm 48 now, and the damage that was done to me - both sexual and emotional abuse, as a small child...? Well, I've been in therapy for decades. All because of my parents not wanting to upset him. That's the cold, hard truth of it. This is just a taste of what your DH's family are potentially opening up for the vulnerable little ones in the family.

Trust your gut. Protect your DC, not this bloke who is working out just how much he can get away with - knowing that it's a little bit further each time. Please don't let this weird, actually predatory behaviours be swept under the rug just to protect your SIL. Because what if he abuses her incoming child...? You'll all feel awful for not being brave enough to say "actually, that's the sort of thing an abuser might do, to get their selected-future-survivor on their own!" or "are they being sincere when they say X about our child, or are they going to twist the narrative against our child so that they feel thar they can't speak out, because they'll know that because of X being planted in our heads, we won't believe them?' It's a literal minefield, I know, but maternal instincts are there for a bloody good reason!

Always trust your gut about people OP especially when it involves your children's safety.

Look it might be for a different reason but I’m telling you right now and hear me.

While there are stranger predators the vast vast vast majority of children who experience childhood sexual abuse do so at the hands of a family member or close family friend then a trusted adult in a position of trust or power like a coach or teacher or scout leader etc.

they manage this because they are either very good at being careful or play on society politeness to not enforce boundaries when people feel uncomfortable with their behaviour. Abuse perpetration is secretive and insidious and requires adults around to not notice or to ignore or be lax and these adults most often do this even when they think something is off because they don’t want to cause upset or create waves examples I’ve heard. well I don’t know for certain or there’s no proof or maybe it’s nothing and I’m being too sensitive. Or what if I’m wrong and end up looking stupid.

sexual predators are almost certainly someone you know who hasn’t been caught yet.

Infact you won’t realise it but you probably know a sexual predator or at least have met one.

99% of the adult survivors of CSA that I know or have worked with were victims from someone they knew and had access to them usually coupled with the ability to manipulate time alone (although not always) with them (not even a lot of time because once a child has experienced enough grooming they don’t necessarily need a lot of time to commit the actual act)

the truth is it doesn’t make any difference if this guy has suspicions intentions or not. You as your child’s parent are the gatekeeper for their safety so if you feel something is off act on it. It really is that simple.

you don’t need to drop a bomb into the family dynamics you just lay out your boundaries and make sure they are stuck to or this person or any other person who doesn’t adhere to them then they do not get access to your child.
I would be telling him specifically that you as a couple are telling him he is not to wander off on his own with child anymore, you have told him not to do this multiple times and you have been ignored so you are clearly telling him again and if it’s ignored you will be pissed.

in the meantime just keep an eye on bil do not give him the opportunity to be alone with your child and talk to your husband.

Imo mil won't admit her dd could have made such an error as choosing him.... It is all down to you op.

As a pp said, watch him, not your dc, much easier. The very next time he tries walking off with him, I’d grab your dc and ask him directly ‘Why do you keep taking dc when I’ve repeatedly told you (not asked) not to?’ I would give zero fucks about keeping the peace, you’re not accusing him of anything, just asking why he’s ignoring your wishes for your child.

Edit to say: my family books a huge house annually, up to 20 members/friends staying. There are multiple little dc, some of whom may be playing quietly in a different room, a bedroom, the huge garden, a shed. Nobody takes them away and usually, the parents will ensure they’re where they should be, or they’re being supervised whilst exploring/on the swing etc, but I completely get how very easy it would be for someone to take one down the lane etc.

I have such sympathy for you @isthisodd4 and I agree you’re not expecting others to look after your child, but you rightly assumed in a household of family that your child was “safe”.

It must be very difficult to be faced with the possibility (and you’re right it is just based at the point on very odd and inappropriate behaviour and “gut” instinct) that this space is not safe. I can’t imagine how awful you must feel because you’re right, it’s a hard thing to even put into words that aren’t “just don’t come near my child” even though I imagine that’s what your head is kinda screaming now.

I would for the moment speak with your DH, make a plan on how you both navigate this space going forward and what to watch for and also call it as you see it. If it’s worst case scenario then the last thing a potential predator wants is to know they’re been caught onto and have their behaviour drawn attention to.

I’d very loosely gage opinion from other family members who may have noticed, or simply throw some feelers out for their reactions to behaviour you HAVE noticed. They may suddenly say “yes! We noticed xyz too” and go from there with whether you carry on interacting in that environment. It’s awful, because obviously you don’t want to upset your SIL, but I don’t really see if he continues to push your boundaries so blatantly with your child how you can maintain close contact.

I think you should have a chat with MIL about this, that you’re not trying to imply anything but it makes you very uncomfortable when he leads DS away and you need her to support you in keeping an eye out for this when you are at family get togethers. It might be that MIL has also noticed things and I think it is important especially with SIL being pregnant that her family can watch out for her and the child.

I’m surprised he can’t read I’m super annoyed with him.

Groomers can read that and it's part of what they do. You're annoyed and uncomfortable, you clearly don't say anything, he wins. They prey on children with parents who won't rock the boat, won't say anything, aren't vigilant, are too trusting, compromise.

Don't be that parent. Say something. Doesn't have to be 'you're a child abuser' but it can be, 'Jeff, please don't encourage DS to do that' or 'Bob, I need DS to listen to me so don't encourage him to do things that I've said no to' or 'Fred I'm teaching Sam to have good boundaries for obvious reasons, I'd prefer if you didn't wander off with him, not every person is safe'. And look him right in the eyes when you say it. No embarrassment, no compromise.

This is what groomers do.

Assume he is one and keep your dc (and other dc) safe.

They look like they are normal you really can't tell.

This. Absolutely this.

why on earth would any man want the company of a two year old anyway!! He wouldn’t is the answer!!

I agree with most of what you wrote and I realise this is not the main point you're making at all, but I rolled my eyes at this. It smacks of a view that looking after children is women's work and the men, including dad can all go off down the pub. It's not the 1950s.

You will not upset anyone by insisting that this man doesn't go off with your child without you. It's parenting 101.

Get a Sarah's Law application. He may not be on the list but he soon will be, by the sound of it. Tell the police what you've told us and they'll help you. If you AND DH keep him fifmly on the radar, he'll bog off. Predators like to work under the radar, not when they're being watched.

Keep a float of sweets in your pocket for DC and they'll stick close to you.

As I said it’s a big house, big family of responsible adults. Everyone bar this person is explicitly trusted with DC. We relax with family when we are there.

Its a difficult one because you are expecting all of the adults to look after your child, which is what this man is doing.

If he wasn’t there then it would be someone else entertaining DC/keeping an eye on him.

He’s not technically doing anything wrong and it seems no one else has picked up on this but I believe you should never ignore your gut instinct.

I think you need to just be a bit firmer about your boundaries.
Just tell him not to take your child out of the house or away from your view.

But tbh the most important thing is that you and DH need to keep an eye on your own child.
If you both want to relax then perhaps take in turns and come up with a system of which one of you will be watch DC.

In some ways, it’s a good thing that this
man is there as you and your DH seem to have no idea where your toddler is half the time and even 1 minute can be the difference between life and death for a toddler.

Sexual predation within families is EXCEPTIONALLY common. The horrificness of it, and the fact that so very many victims and families keep things like this quiet (for various reasons), means that we sort of can't help feeling it's a rare, or uncommon, thing. It isn't. It is COMMON.

OP, gently, I think you're being too reluctant to act. And I understand why. It feels huge, and risky, and also, I believe this is a bit of a boiled frog situation. It's somewhat in plain sight, which tricks our brains into believing that nothing that bad can be happening, and it's become a kind of familiar, expected pattern, even though you dislike it.

I'm sorry to say but every alarm bell I have about familial predation is ringing like mad right now. As a PP said, predators can be extremely patient, and play very long games. They often groom entire families and social groups to accept and ignore their behaviour, as well as grooming the child victim.

Walking off down the street, about to turn a corner, is drastically alarming. As you pointed out in a reply, this wasn't the slow, meandering, distracted walk of a toddler leading an adult around. This distance had been covered quickly and they were about to go out of sight altogether. It's extremely inappropriate at best.

Even if nothing nefarious is going on, OP, you need to put a stop to this HARD, and in plain view. If nothing else, this is teaching your child that this kind of behaviour and treatment from an adult is normal. It isn't. God forbid a predator should target your child in future, they are more likely to feel it's normal to be taken away from a group, and to be isolated with an adult despite what you, the parents, are saying.

I know you have been retrieving your child quickly and also telling this man your feelings, in the way that's felt best at the time. This response needs escalating rapidly though, OP. Something is very wrong here, even if it is solely that dangerous norms are being taught to your child. I'm so sorry this is even something you're having to think about.

I'm also uneasy about OP's SIL's safety now she's mentioned SIL is pregnant. That's a peak time for abuse to start, and if her husband is the creepy predator he sounds like, getting the chance to divide the family and act the victim to isolate her would probably suit him just fine.

Seems like he is attempting to create the scenario that him being alone with your dc is the norm. Make it definitely not.