To think there needs to be a public inquiry into child development

The issue is your lack of comprehension OP. There are more children with high level needs UNSUPPORTED and in MAINSTREAM school. Disability is not a new invention.

The government don't need to do a 'survey' because they are well aware of this fact. And they do not give a fuck.

Gosh do we really?

The Children turfed out all day wasn’t done thing when I was child in 80s, we played out as a group but needed to be back for meals.

I wasn’t suggesting those kids weren’t fed.

God I just hate threads like these.

I was born in the 90s. Yes I was turfed out onto the streets when they could unattach me from the TV.

Did I go socialise with the other kids? No because I'm autistic and they thought me a bloody weirdo. So I just kinda wandered along the streets instead.

I have issues as an adult now but now because of any screen time - because I was bullied by neurotypical peers.

IMHO, parents were far more neglectful back then. Kids could only benefit from being turned out if they already had the social skills in place.

And quite a few people on this thread have presumed just that! Now what about the children who were autistic back then? Like me?

They weren't in mainstream in the 90s. My friends sibling would go off to school and back in her taxi, apart from that she would be left to watch us from inside and stuck infront of the TV, whilst her siblings played out. I didn't mean locked away in terms of institutions (although they do still exist, even today) but very much segregated from the rest of society.

The Children turfed out all day wasn’t done thing when I was child in 80s, we played out as a group but needed to be back for meals.
But the phenomenon of preteens and teens never being allowed out ever without an adult is very new, post Covid.
Eg Secondary school age children always driven to school and structured activities.
We are specifically stating now on Girlguide trips if girls will be with an adult at all times as some parents do now expect this eg rollerskating recently. We let girls (10-13) skate in groups of friends, one leader skating, leaders stood on side of rink watching. Let them go to cafe in small groups to buy a drink. One mum insisted she came and hold hands with her child on the rink, accompanied her to cafe. Not a one off incident.

Not even in the 80s was this very common for new DC.

That's why it's ridiculous when people say 'well in the past, those DC would have been hidden away'.

In the late 19th and early to mid 20th century, DC with what we would now consider to be LD or high-needs ASC kids would routinely be offered placements in institutions but also, some families said no and kept their kids at home.

1980s - 90s was the slow dismantle of the institutions and asylums.

So 'these kids' that would allegedly have been hidden away, haven't been for at least 30 years, I agree.

So entirely irrelevant when we're taking about now.

“Our concept of risk has distorted. We are much happier to coop our kids up on screens, risking social communication problems and obesity, than let them out to play because of the very small chance of a serious accident or kidnap.”

The safeguarding at school encourages that though. We would be reported if we let our 7 year old DD walk to school with her friends yet her cousins who live in Zurich are doing just that. Every day. Their curriculum is much more based on physical and social & emotional development up to the age of 8/9.

I remember even in Year 1 my DCs here were sat at the desk most of the day and there was never enough sport provided in school. Thankfully their school introduced the daily mile a few years back and Chinese style morning acrobatics and brain breaks. We need lots and lots of this across all English schools. Sufficient exercise is critical for bone and muscle development. People who work until 6pm every day and live in a country that is cold most of the year need to be able to rely on the public education system to provide their DCs with plenty of exercise!

I haven’t read the whole thread so don’t know if anyone linked this study yet https://www.nuffieldfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/A-generation-at-risk-rebalancing-education-in-the-post-pandemic-era-1.pdf

Of course screens are a modern phenomenon. Last 10 years particularly.

I'm talking about all the 'kids were thrown out every day to do what they liked and only came home when they were hungry'.

'Mums fed their babies then put them in a pram for hours or pushed them to the bottom of the garden if they were crying'

'Dads weren't even at the birth, let alone changing nappies'.

'Parents didn't interact with their DC like now children were to be seen and not heard'.

'Kids were left outside pubs with a coke and a packet of crisps'.

At the same time as saying 'there were more SAHM back then so better parenting'.

There have always been parents that don't interact well with their DC and are neglectful.

But the things I've described above haven't been commonly accepted for decades.

I was born in 1978. My parents read to me, my Mum worked and was a bit dismissive about the 'baby wearing, hippy , co-sleeping Mums in toddler groups' because that wasn't what she was into, but it definitely was common enough.

Dr Spocks child-rearing books devised in the 1940s went really mainstream in the 1960s.

The 70s and 80s were when 'parenting styles' began to be a thing as there were many, many books published on parenting. Which became trends.

So, I'm sure there are still kids left outside pubs with a coke and kicked out of the home to find for themselves till they're hungry or it gets dark, but it certainly isn't common anymore, hence the MN posts to call social services if anyone saw a kid waiting outside a pub for their parent or even inside one.

I think a lot of the reasons that ND people can't work are man-made though, and could be fixed.

This - certainly with schools.

I think my kids are very similar to me - ND - wise but I had much calmer less chaotic school environments to content with - my secondary could get loud and noisy and chaotic but lessons were clam and gave that break so could cope with rest of the day.

DD2 not getting that - huge classes, inexperienced teachers poor behavior and lots of supply - it's chaotic and loud the bulk of the time - toilet access is so restricted as to not be there - lunch was stressful time some senior more experienced teachers stared breaking rules and letting kids like mine eat quietly in their classroom. DD2 started to think she's the problem not the environment an attitude that's seems to get encouraged with emphasis on what she can't do - which we as parents that have to battle against.

My 4 DC are just fine and they got way more attention from me than I ever did from my parents (grew up in the 80s to mid 90s). We were just left to figure stuff out more ourselves, walked to school, our childhoods were less stressful. My parents barely looked at my exam results, nor did they have to “Read” with me daily do spellings and Maths practice. Look KS1 and KS2 demand and GCSEs are tougher than they used to be. It is just not realistic to get many children up to that level. It comes with loads of pressure on kids and the parents. We don’t need a society of 50% going to uni. It is a waste of resources. We need those who need a uni education for their profession to go, the rest should be going into good quality apprenticeships. It is the one size fits all in education that is too much pressure, especially post Covid.
Covid has been terrible for social mobility and children with SEN. That will come out of the Covid inquiry. Numerous studies are already showing that.

As for screen addictions and diet and lack of exercise, well people need to inform themselves. The state cannot nanny everyone. The information is out there if you want to access it - loads of free work outs online, park runs, a massive vitamin industry. In many ways, health is at the centre for so many people.

Screen addiction is like any addiction. The state should do less interference and let people work things out for themselves and in their own communities. There should be much more local funding vs some state centralised model. It just does not work. People have relied too much on the “state”, NHS, teachers etc., the benefits system. Once you have a society like that you infantilise everyone. Plus “the Government” does not have anywhere as much control as the general public think. They are just some other humans making stuff up as they go along as well. Covid was the perfect example of that and so was Brexit.

And everyone deserves a good wage if they work hard. That is where it starts. If you are guaranteed a good wage as a builder/hairdresser/chef etc then you don’t have to go to uni to become an accountant or teacher. A fairer wage distribution for all would solve a lot of problems quickly. And finally, the state should never encourage those already struggling to have more kids via generous benefits. That is just not fair on those children. Parenting these days is difficult and precious because we have a low birth rate. Some more respect towards parents from the elderly generation would not go amiss. So if the state is going to encourage people to have kids, they should be encouraging those who are healthy, have less trauma, are not poor. Now I bet I am going to be accused of being a Tory. Far from it! But we need to think about the children being born too.

I think my son is partly in trouble because we've been under intense pressure to pursue academic excellence above all else, and now his skill of independence are terribly far behind.

In order to do what I need to do to bring on his skills of independence I've had to remove him from the school system because the schools were driving him relentlessly to try to get the best league table placing that they could.

They had no incentive to think about him as a whole child, or to care at all about his ability to function in society. When I did talk to them about how bad his situation was, they said I just needed to send him back to school or deregister and take on all responsibility for his education myself. He was having a nervous breakdown and they had no incentive at all to think about anything other than driving him hard towards GCSEs or getting rid of him.

I think the school system, the Gove curriculum and league tables really carry a lot of responsiblity for the mess our kids are in.

My son has never had a smartphone.

I think a lot of the reasons that ND people can't work are man-made though, and could be fixed.

I can't work because I get headaches from LED lights and nausea from the constantly moving pictures on screens in the screen-based world we live in now.

If I had fluorescent lights and fluorescent backlit screens or paper to work from I'd do just fine,

The tv is full of fear and horror and intense music too, and it didn't used to be like that.

Everywhere is full of bright lights and intense stuff these days and none of it is necessary. If we could get rid of this stuff and make the world calmer and less full of sensory overwhelm then ND would be able to work again.

You can't honestly think kids don't still regularly play games like that? My two certainly do.

Jesus Christ so what are you proposing, a cut off?? No kids if you're over 36 or had a miscarriage oh and don't forget if your baby is prem or born with difficulty, well it's too bad we'll just let nature take it's course??

I've been reading and contributing to this thread with interest but there's some extremely troubling views being implied as it goes on.

I saw about 10 yrs ago two girls playing “ Horse and Driver’” along the pavement outside our house-
A skipping rope was the “Reins” and the “ Horse” high stepped and tossed her mane, and the “ Driver” was equally in the zone
ir was lovely too see- a game that we too used to play as kids.

Phones kill creativity.

I have an old Brownie Guide handbook (or it might be a badge book?) that talks about babysitting. Not being babysat, babysitting.

I'm not sure we should go back to 10 year olds babysitting, but surely there's a happy medium where children get some responsibility/ jobs to do.

I’d disagree. There’s a marked change even in last few years. Seeing toddlers with phones propped in front of them in a cafe or buggy is a very new phenomenon.
Girlguides, pre Covid I can’t recall any bring a phone. Not we have to make them put on side and several repeatedly pick them up and use them when we aren’t looking.
Helping on a recent brownie holiday lots had never made a sandwich, washed up etc. Those type of chores used to be standard for junior school age children.

"Children were not routinely locked away in the late 90s and 2000s. There’s a 30 year gap between commonplace institutions and this issue taking a steep upward curve."

They are still locked away now in hospitals and assessment /treatment units. Or in residential provision hundreds of miles away from their home.

My brother's a primary school teacher and he says that children now struggle with that he described as creativity and imaginative play.

For example he was making wreaths with his class, gave them the basic wreath, lots of crayons, glue glitter etc and encouraged them to give free rein to their creativity. About half of them couldn't do that and needed directive instructions.

he also says he sees fewer imaginative games in the playground eg mums and dads, quests, all the make believe games kids have played for milennia.

He blames screens.

Its not about 'being themselves' it is about learning how to function appropriately as an adult. Suppressing emotions and abusive backgrounds leads to a cycle of abuse which is what we see alot in society.