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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think there needs to be a public inquiry into child development

592 replies

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 19/05/2024 11:53

It really seems like we have a looming societal crisis in terms of child development and therefore the quality of the public in 10-20 years time. Experienced teachers across the board seem to be reporting an overwhelming increase in delayed, aggressive and disruptive children. I’m extremely worried about how this will impact society when they become adults - it seems (as a guess) at least a tenth of children will be incapable of work of any kind, and many more will need copious amounts of support to live any kind of responsible life.

AIBU to think we need an urgent public inquiry into this and what is going on? It seems to be the elephant in the room and anybody who tries to discuss it is shouted down.

I’m sure some of it is due to cuts in services but surely that can’t account for it all - it’s very sudden and extremely alarming.

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WonderingWanda · 19/05/2024 13:13

BusyCM · 19/05/2024 12:08

I don't see much disruptive behaviour, I've been a cm for 15 years and have my own teens....most children are polite, well behaved, kind, engaged.... most of the time.

The odd child with 'problems' either goes on to have an ND diagnosis or has a disruptive home life with ineffective parenting. I wouldn't say this has particularly increased though.

There is a very passive style of parenting at the moment which gives parents more trouble in the long term but the children react well to my routine, boundaries and behaviour modelling so I don't get involved, they will soon realise!

Would it be fair to say that as a childminder that you don't encounter the full spectrum of society? Most if not all of your clients will be working parents who earn enough to pay for childcare and are able to provide a reasonable level of organisation and support for their children. You won't be meeting the children from the most deprived backgrounds who have been most impacted by austerity and cuts to support services.

I agree with pp that screens and they way people interact with their children is a massive issue though. I also think the high-levels of environmental pollution and chemicals in our food are having horrible impacts on humans as a species but perhaps we don't fully grasp the extent of this.

Fallingforwards · 19/05/2024 13:13

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 19/05/2024 13:02

Schools were much more draconian 20-40 years ago than now! When I was at school teachers shouted at you, detention was chipping gum off desks and litter picking on a Saturday, you would be sat facing a wall as a punishment or doing lines. Then you’d be smacked when you got home for cheeking the teachers and embarrassing your parents.

This definitely doesn't accurately describe the norm in the 90's or 00s (20-30 years ago). In the 90s my state secondary school was considered 'strict' at the time but was very, very far from zero tolerance. Kids were only excluded for violent or very aggressive behaviour. Not doing your homework rarely resulted in any consequences bar a reminder that you were only hurting yourself.

Wanttolikekimchee · 19/05/2024 13:13

It’s horrible seeing a baby or toddler in a pushchair with a smartphone propped up for them to stare at. It’s fucking terrible parenting.

DramaLlamaBangBang · 19/05/2024 13:13

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 19/05/2024 12:54

I was going by DD’s class. Normal state primary in an average area. 25 kids so quite a small class. 3 children with high needs. One is completely non verbal and has no understanding at all. One has anger problems, kicks/punches kids on a daily basis and trashes the classroom plus learning difficulty (he is verbal though). The other DD’s friend, lovely boy with autism who is verbal and I imagine will live semi independently but will need support I imagine for all his adult life.

Apparently that’s quite a low SEN intake as well.

My DDad was a teacher in a SEN school 40 years ago. He was one of the first teachers to be trained in autism. Now there aren't those schools. But the kids existed. They just weren't as visible. Also I used to work with adults with learning difficulties. Many spent their school years in a separate room colouring in. They had a love of learning but were shut away. That wasn't so long ago.

NOTANUM · 19/05/2024 13:10

I’m convinced it’s screens as others have said as it’s affecting every societal group and age. When the studies have been completed, we may find today’s 40+ year olds can concentrate and perform better cognitively than our young people as they’re the last generation to grow up without endless on-demand technology.

I saw a new low today in a highly affluent area with a parent who was chatting on the phone happily while pushing a buggy. I can say nothing about the child other than it had legs: the hood was pulled down low to avoid the sun and to keep an iPad propped up blocking the view for the child. It’s sunny and warm here today, not that the baby saw any of it.. Sad.

NineChickennuggets · 19/05/2024 13:10

"There were no institutions in the 90s. "

There are still institutions in all but name now. Supported living in the community is recent.

Wanttolikekimchee · 19/05/2024 13:08

Parents giving their children smartphones instead of spending time with them and talking to them is the biggest problem in my opinion.

Fallingforwards · 19/05/2024 13:07

I am no longer a class teacher but still go into schools regularly. I honestly think the ridiculous stuffing of the curriculum and totally inappropriate priorities are to blame ESPECIALLY after covid (alongside the failed experiment in 'inclusion' of kids who desperately need and deserve special needs places).

Kids until secondary need to move, play, paint, sing, learn to read, learn to add up and to be kind to one another. That's it. If we stripped back the academic expectations teachers would have more time to spend on social and emotional skills which kids desperately need and frankly secondary schools need them to have more than they need advance writing skills or complex mathematics. Those can be taught if kids arrive at secondary with the ability to learn them.

TheFunHasGone · 19/05/2024 13:06

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 19/05/2024 13:03

There were no institutions in the 90s. I really think the numbers are far higher although I would be interested in comment on this from any nursery or early years professionals on here

In the 90s children with additional needs were not in mainstream school in such high numbers as they are now

And there were definitely still some supported living environments that were more like institutions not just in the 90s but even later than that

sarahc336 · 19/05/2024 13:05

I work in mental health and I actually agree. I feel it's been a steady decline since lock down I'd say, not just in children/teens/early 20s but also adults. The cases we see now are so much more complex, risk is sky high 🙈 I feel the general population is more stressed and it's causing these type of issues

CuteOrangeElephant · 19/05/2024 13:05

I think the education system doesn't help actually. My daughter would completely fall apart if she had to go to a school with super strict uniform requirements or where something like forgetting pencil gets you in trouble.

Like PP said above, the expectations on children in KS1 are insane. Homework for 5 year olds? I didn't have that when I was that age 30 years ago.

luckylms · 19/05/2024 13:04

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 19/05/2024 13:02

Schools were much more draconian 20-40 years ago than now! When I was at school teachers shouted at you, detention was chipping gum off desks and litter picking on a Saturday, you would be sat facing a wall as a punishment or doing lines. Then you’d be smacked when you got home for cheeking the teachers and embarrassing your parents.

Yep and in those time there was still children who were sen or had bad home lives etc but they were not understood and punished or not given a change at mainstream education at all.

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 19/05/2024 13:03

NineChickennuggets · 19/05/2024 12:59

"Of course, but in such high numbers as now?"

Non verbal as teenagers? I think it would be the same number. They are just more visible ( not locked away) now.

There were no institutions in the 90s. I really think the numbers are far higher although I would be interested in comment on this from any nursery or early years professionals on here

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DancefloorAcrobatics · 19/05/2024 13:03

At least 50% of poor classroom behaviour in early years and KS1 is probably down to children being overwhelmed.

Cognitive abilities are not fully developed until the ages of 6-7 - the part of the brain that leads to abstract thinking like writing or adding & subtracting. That's why many countries start schooling around that age.
I agree some is poor parenting, it's easier to give your child a label than actually addressing the behaviour. (I know that kind of thinking is unpopular on MN)
Society as a whole is far more lenient and forgiving towards children Poor behaviour at a young age is seen as spirited or cute...
No fear factor or drive to achieve something. Because lets face it, DC get most things handed on a plate. Wanna ice cream? Here you go... Wanna phone? here you go.... Wanna xbox? Here you go...

luckylms · 19/05/2024 13:02

In terms of speech issues etc
I mean this in the nicest way that children who are born with conditions like genetics conditions / defects / prematurity are now surviving much more than they used to.
these all impact a child’s development.

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 19/05/2024 13:02

Isitchill · 19/05/2024 12:58

It's a mix of over stretched support services and parents, draconian school rules and some shit parenting (which was always there).
I was just watching an awful family in the local playground who claim their daughter needs support. The adults have their stupid dog in a no dog playground and are standing around smoking, near the no smoking signs. That child doesn't have a chance.

Schools were much more draconian 20-40 years ago than now! When I was at school teachers shouted at you, detention was chipping gum off desks and litter picking on a Saturday, you would be sat facing a wall as a punishment or doing lines. Then you’d be smacked when you got home for cheeking the teachers and embarrassing your parents.

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ChampagneGold · 19/05/2024 13:01

Weak/ineffective parenting.

A general lack of resilience.

A lack of discipline and respect at school and kids being able to push back because 'they know their rights'. When kids are disciplined, parents will back their kids and not the school.

Too much reliance on screens (parents and kids)

Poor diet and lack of exercise

Essentially I think kids need strict boundaries and consequences, they need to have some emotional resilience and the ability to just tough it out and get on with things rather than being pandered to the whole time.

Because that is what they will encounter as adults when they get out into the real world and so many of them are being set up for failure.

CuteOrangeElephant · 19/05/2024 13:00

1 in 10 not being able to work sounds really extreme? My DD on the waiting list for an ASD assesment, but I have no doubt that she will be able to work when she grows up.

My cousin who has ASD, who was not able to go to a mainstream school, is now living independently and has a job.

I think it's a wider problem with behaviour and not something to blame on people with ASD. In fact my DD is impeccably behaved at school.

PitterPatter3 · 19/05/2024 13:00

Have a look at the book ‘Toxic Childhood’ by Sue Palmer. It’s quite an old book now but highlights a lot of ways in which modern life can affect children.

NineChickennuggets · 19/05/2024 12:59

"Of course, but in such high numbers as now?"

Non verbal as teenagers? I think it would be the same number. They are just more visible ( not locked away) now.

luckylms · 19/05/2024 12:59

See to be honest I don’t see if, I went to school from primary 1996 and secondary 2002
the behaviour in both was chaos at times 😂 especially secondary schools but what I do think has changed is our expectations.
secondary schools literally having apps / online systems that update negative points as the day is happening for EVERYTHING.

my friend got one the other day which was listed as “ serious incident and marked as highest level “
the incident was he for in trouble for not having a piece of equipment - got upset and then removed from class - got more upset so refused to go in to another room
the serious incident was him refusing to go in to a different room and not the sit in the corridor.
he was suspended for 2 days.
I am not saying it was an incident but back when I was at school, you would of just been dealt with the head teacher and your parents wouldn’t even know about something like that 😂
a serious incident would be violence / threatening / hurting someone / stealing / setting the toilets on fire.

children have emotions, children make mistakes they should be punishments but I think I do think our expectation in education have changed and it’s not suitable for a lot of them anymore.

atotalshambles · 19/05/2024 12:58

I think the expectation of having 2 full-time working parents makes life more challenging as there is less time for everything. Less time for getting everything done and less time together as a family. I think screens are pretty toxic for everyone and we are all addicted to the dopamine hit we get and so it's not a surprise when our children mimic us. I think that the vast majority of parents are doing their best. However,I also think that as a society we try to opt out of personal responsibility thinking that schools, NHS, government can fix everything.

Isitchill · 19/05/2024 12:58

It's a mix of over stretched support services and parents, draconian school rules and some shit parenting (which was always there).
I was just watching an awful family in the local playground who claim their daughter needs support. The adults have their stupid dog in a no dog playground and are standing around smoking, near the no smoking signs. That child doesn't have a chance.

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 19/05/2024 12:54

NineChickennuggets · 19/05/2024 12:54

"I grew up in a large faith community, big families, lots of kids in and out of each others houses (90s). I can’t remember any children who were non verbal at 4, and I’m not a ‘good old days’ type."

People like my non verbal 17 year old have always existed.

Of course, but in such high numbers as now?

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MaryMaryVeryContrary · 19/05/2024 12:54

Itsagreatdaytosavelives · 19/05/2024 12:48

i think you 1 in 10 guesstimate is wrong..... its much higher.
parenting? children not out playing? screens? something in the water? surestarts going/limited funding has set early years back. ive my fingers crossed for a labour government and i dont even live in england (wider uk that still has limited surestart)

I was going by DD’s class. Normal state primary in an average area. 25 kids so quite a small class. 3 children with high needs. One is completely non verbal and has no understanding at all. One has anger problems, kicks/punches kids on a daily basis and trashes the classroom plus learning difficulty (he is verbal though). The other DD’s friend, lovely boy with autism who is verbal and I imagine will live semi independently but will need support I imagine for all his adult life.

Apparently that’s quite a low SEN intake as well.

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