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To think there needs to be a public inquiry into child development

592 replies

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 19/05/2024 11:53

It really seems like we have a looming societal crisis in terms of child development and therefore the quality of the public in 10-20 years time. Experienced teachers across the board seem to be reporting an overwhelming increase in delayed, aggressive and disruptive children. I’m extremely worried about how this will impact society when they become adults - it seems (as a guess) at least a tenth of children will be incapable of work of any kind, and many more will need copious amounts of support to live any kind of responsible life.

AIBU to think we need an urgent public inquiry into this and what is going on? It seems to be the elephant in the room and anybody who tries to discuss it is shouted down.

I’m sure some of it is due to cuts in services but surely that can’t account for it all - it’s very sudden and extremely alarming.

OP posts:
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MaryMaryVeryContrary · 19/05/2024 15:50

Unabletomitigate · 19/05/2024 15:24

Decline in quality of diet has lead to overall health and mental health tanking.

Take a look at Georgia Ede outlining the effects of our current diet on mental health. She does not explicitly say in this talk how it effects kids, but in her book she has some very striking anecdotes about how diet changes behavior in kids.

Thanks I’ll have a watch later. There is a lot of junk added to food now and an awful lot of parents seem to have got themselves in a rut of feeding their kids beige freezer food.

OP posts:
Tospyornottospy · 19/05/2024 15:47

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 19/05/2024 15:43

I think modern parenting has contributed to the milder issues. Agree with the comments about never being bored, rarely being told no. Parents seem to feel the need to explain their every tiny decision to their toddlers who must be utterly bemused.

I find parents will also do anything to avoid meltdowns. Distraction, giving them something else, redirecting them etc - it’s never simply a ‘no’ so they know they’ve done wrong or can’t have something.

I agree with this and everything else on the thread.

IMP most of it is shitty parenting/absent parenting (eg too much time in childcare) and screens.

the number of babies who are forward facing in a buggy and the parent pushing has earphones in…and wonder why there is a speech delay?! No one is ever told no, parents can’t take any perceived criticism of themselves and their child.

I don’t agree re sleep though OP; the idea that children and babies should sleep through the night is a few hundred years old.
biologically they aren’t supposed to for a while.

oakleaffy · 19/05/2024 15:44

Lifeomars · 19/05/2024 15:37

I can only comment about the children I know so that makes my response purely qualitative. I have a couple of friends with teenagers and they both have had struggles with their mental health. I think lockdown contributed to this, one missed out on a smooth transition from primary to secondary school and the other was awarded their CCSEs by assessment and this impacted on their already shaky self esteem. Both of them have had to wait an incredibly long time to be seen by CAMHS which does not help matters. We need to really invest in the mental wellbeing of our young people I think all children and indeed most adults' mental health took a major hit during the pandemic and we are seeing the consequences now. Another friend has an almost 3 year old who is just an utter delight, full of fun and hitting all their milestones and my neighbours has three little ones who all seem to be fine. I think the use of screens and smart phones does impact on the formation of neural pathways at crucial stages of development but that is just my opinion and sometimes I wonder if it is just me being old fashioned. I do think that parenting in this day and age is very challenging

My neighbours have a three year old and she’s been sung to and spoken to so much every day by her parents ( Both work)
They have a second child and are always talk to the children- it’s lovely to hear.
Little girl has great vocabulary abs is bilingual.
No screens there used as dummies to keep kids quiet.
Screens are really bad for kids in my opinion

Lifeomars · 19/05/2024 15:44

solsticelove · 19/05/2024 15:33

Modern life is different for children today.
Society is letting kids down.

Cuts in services/lack of proper funding (NHS, education, Sure start etc)
A capitalist society where both parents have to work and are under financial pressures.
Cost of living crisis
An outdated, highly pressured education system which doesn’t allow for play and a proper childhood.

Too easy to put the blame on families when this government have trashed quality of life.

Sure Start was brilliant, my ex had a niece who went to her local one with her little one and it totally changed her and the way she inteacted with her child. She made friends and became far more confident and her parenting benefitted. If they had been around when I was a young mum I would have been there regularly.

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 19/05/2024 15:43

I think modern parenting has contributed to the milder issues. Agree with the comments about never being bored, rarely being told no. Parents seem to feel the need to explain their every tiny decision to their toddlers who must be utterly bemused.

I find parents will also do anything to avoid meltdowns. Distraction, giving them something else, redirecting them etc - it’s never simply a ‘no’ so they know they’ve done wrong or can’t have something.

OP posts:
Pinkpolkadothat · 19/05/2024 15:41

One of my dc was diagnosed with ASD and in urgent need of SALT. We had to wait 6 months for the initial assessment - this was 18 months ago and still waiting for a block of therapy. We were told they don’t go into schools either now. Same with OT - we’ve been waiting 12 months - so this won’t be helping dc as the problem is nationwide with waiting times. Not to even mention the CAMHS crisis

Tessiebeare · 19/05/2024 15:39

This is controversial but I think we have very low expectations for our children a lot of the time and we never allow them to be bored so when there is a bit of a lull they don’t know what to do with themselves and so create havoc instead.

We go to quite an old fashioned church. There is no Sunday school so all the children attend with their parents from babyhood and without fail they are all able to sit on their seat and quietly colour in/ fiddle with a few toys for an hour by the time they are 5 (even the ND kids like my son) because that is what is expected of them all their life and they’ve practiced it every week from birth. Afterwards they have to interact with people of all ages and backgrounds who come and speak to them so they learn social skills from that too.
Less and less people go to church now and even then most churches have children’s sections but I can’t really think of any other environment where kids can learn this. Even when I was at school there were more opportunities to learn this as my daughter’s school doesn’t even have assemblies anymore and they are rarely sitting at a desk. Now kids are never expected to be bored as if there is any down time then they are given a phone to amuse them as many kids seem to get anxious and don’t know what to do with themselves otherwise.
We also have more stuff and expectations even from 30 years ago. Things that would have been a treat are now just expectations so I think some kids are genuinely shocked if they are told no to something so kick off.

Lifeomars · 19/05/2024 15:37

I can only comment about the children I know so that makes my response purely qualitative. I have a couple of friends with teenagers and they both have had struggles with their mental health. I think lockdown contributed to this, one missed out on a smooth transition from primary to secondary school and the other was awarded their CCSEs by assessment and this impacted on their already shaky self esteem. Both of them have had to wait an incredibly long time to be seen by CAMHS which does not help matters. We need to really invest in the mental wellbeing of our young people I think all children and indeed most adults' mental health took a major hit during the pandemic and we are seeing the consequences now. Another friend has an almost 3 year old who is just an utter delight, full of fun and hitting all their milestones and my neighbours has three little ones who all seem to be fine. I think the use of screens and smart phones does impact on the formation of neural pathways at crucial stages of development but that is just my opinion and sometimes I wonder if it is just me being old fashioned. I do think that parenting in this day and age is very challenging

Jigglypuff87 · 19/05/2024 15:36

This garbage again, it always the parents fault isn't it. There's more non verbal children now as there's next to zero nhs salt intervention. Nhs salt discharged my son at 5, as they couldn't support him further apparently. We asked for an alternative communication aid which they refused. The school did nothing either. He only started communicating functionally when we decided to home school and implement the communication aid ourselves. The system is a disgrace and it makes children more disabled than they should be. For the record he doesn't watch TV at all and believe it or not I talk and spend time with him all day everyday. Not all parents with special needs children neglect them.

Silverfoxlady · 19/05/2024 15:33

I know this might be an unpopular opinion, but I think it isn’t just the stress of life and full time work for both parents, but the whole world has changed in general that contributes to this decline in child mental health.

On the whole children don’t play outside as much anymore, they are more likely to play on their computer and partake in social media. Parents are super stressed at work and exhausted with general life, and so more likely to hand children a tablet during free time. I am not criticising - I am also guilty of this, and this seems to be the norm.

Because of this trend, children are more likely to have poor communication and attention skills as well as more aggression depending on what games they are exposed to. They are less likely to show the skills needed in school to be able to concentrate and learn, leading to general detachment from studies and general aggressive behaviour which might stem from frustration.

It sounds awful, but I am hoping that this is just a bad trend and that this would be investigated and rectified.

solsticelove · 19/05/2024 15:33

Modern life is different for children today.
Society is letting kids down.

Cuts in services/lack of proper funding (NHS, education, Sure start etc)
A capitalist society where both parents have to work and are under financial pressures.
Cost of living crisis
An outdated, highly pressured education system which doesn’t allow for play and a proper childhood.

Too easy to put the blame on families when this government have trashed quality of life.

oakleaffy · 19/05/2024 15:32

TeenDivided · 19/05/2024 12:28

Wow. Words nearly fail me.

You can't turn on and off ASD or MH problems.
And people with ASD or MH problems are not disposable.
Many people with ASD or MH problems can hold down jobs too.

The population may need 'cleansing' (I disgagree with that anyway), but if so, then maybe not of the people you are thinking of ...

Hitler had that idea of “Cleansing “ A T-4 programme of mass euthanasia of anyone not productive or who was mentally or physically Ill or disabled.

Shame he didn’t off himself eh.

Stoptakingthep · 19/05/2024 15:28

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 19/05/2024 15:15

I think it’s been acknowledged that along with better diagnosis there has been a true rise. I think the symptom net has widened so anxiety, autism, PTSD, depression, OCD all overlap and it’s now very hard to separate out what is what. But equally there has been a rise in ASD that would not have flown under the radar at a ‘more relaxed school’ 30 years ago. Like I said growing up I didn’t know any children who were non verbal ASD, now I know 5. Did any of you know children with non verbal ASD when you were growing up? How many now?

The diagnostic criteria for ASD was broadened and the thresholds became lower., particularly if using ICD criteria and not DSM.

Which is a contributing factor to the rise in child and adult diagnosis.

And the acute rise I referrals for ASC and ADHD assessments meant the NHS system couldn't cope so more inexperienced assessors in the NHS and poorer assessments from private assessments making ££££ happen.

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 19/05/2024 15:26

ThomasinaLivesHere · 19/05/2024 15:24

Apologises if mentioned already but the age people are having children has increased. I never really hear it mentioned much as a cause for why there could be an increase in ASD though it’s accepted that older parents are more likely to have children with issues.

Yes, I’ve looked into the studies around parental age and ASD (it’s quite well studied) and while there is a link, it’s a smallish one, and the ASD in the children is typical of what used to be called Asperger’s - higher functioning, usually quite bright, verbal but struggles with social communication. Not children with no speech, severe communication issues, explosive meltdowns and so on. In my tiny anecdata of the children I know who fit the latter profile, the parents are all in their 20s.

OP posts:
LakeTiticaca · 19/05/2024 15:25

Parents get off bloody tiktok and Parent your children ffs

ThomasinaLivesHere · 19/05/2024 15:24

Apologises if mentioned already but the age people are having children has increased. I never really hear it mentioned much as a cause for why there could be an increase in ASD though it’s accepted that older parents are more likely to have children with issues.

Unabletomitigate · 19/05/2024 15:24

Decline in quality of diet has lead to overall health and mental health tanking.

Take a look at Georgia Ede outlining the effects of our current diet on mental health. She does not explicitly say in this talk how it effects kids, but in her book she has some very striking anecdotes about how diet changes behavior in kids.

How nutrition affects the brain by Georgia Ede

How do your food choices affect your mental health? *Georgia Ede, a Harvard-trained psychiatrist specializing in nutrition science, brain metabolism, and men...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URwq7Yzf0mY

Aintnosupermum · 19/05/2024 15:24

I forgot to add the issue of sAHP and childcare.

I work very full time but I have excellent childcare and I’m now in a leadership role where I’m supervising the work of others, not actually doing the work myself. That is a huge shift for me because I’m taking calls after work, not actually spending hours working. I also have full time childcare/housekeper. She is young not as qualified as I would like but she is excellent with the children. No it’s not cheap but when I see what my sister is going through in the UK trying to hire a nanny for the children, it’s absolutely ridiculous.

The tax code doesn’t support any of this. My disposable income is low because I pay for this support. It’s not right I get no tax breaks and I’m paying about 55% income tax by the time you include all the various taxes. I have two children sharing a room and the 3rd is in my walk in wardrobe. I make a very high wage. I shouldn’t have to live like this but my commute is short, I get 9mim extra with the children each day.

Good quality childcare matters but now it’s so expensive we are going to see many more families leaving children unattended at home or being looked after by elder family, which research has shown to be less than ideal.

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 19/05/2024 15:23

@BertieBotts I’ve seen you post that report a lot but what it doesn’t do is take into account the level of need. It’s all very well saying ‘X in 10 children back then had SEN, and that’s the same as now’, but without taking in to account the extent of the disability or need then it’s worthless. Like I said virtually every childcare professional (even those working when that report was commissioned) are saying the same thing.

Many of the children now simply wouldn’t have flown under the radar in a different environment. These are children with no speech, uncontrollable anger issues, not toilet trained at 5 or 6.

OP posts:
Pinkpolkadothat · 19/05/2024 15:23

WalkingonWheels · 19/05/2024 14:15

This. Plus when people of very low intelligence have children, and they go on to have children, things happen. It's unfortunate to say, but some of the parents have such low levels of...well, anything. They simply exist in a cloud of smoke and drugs and their children suffer for it. It's very concerning.

I know of a lot of very MC families - both parents professionals and their dc are unable to go to school etc - they can afford private care but they still have the same issues I really don’t think it’s solely down to parenting or poverty issues

Pastryface · 19/05/2024 15:21

Harvestfestivalknickers · 19/05/2024 14:20

I think years ago before 'screens', society was a lot more community focused. We were left to play unsupervised outside as children, but the parents and neighbours kept an eye on everyone playing together. We walked to school with the neighbours children. My parents never set foot inside my primary school. I didn't do any 'organised' activities other than Brownies. By being left with other children to play, we sorted out our disagreements, explored the neighbourhood, developed indepence and resilience.
My parents never intervened in childish squabbles but wouldn't think twice about telling off another child if they were behaving badly. The 'community' was both supporting but had clear behaviour expectations.
Now, that sense of community has gone. Children spend much more time at home on screens. They no longer spend hours playing and exploring with other children, developing resilience. They get anxious when faced with adversity as they have never had to work things out for themselves. Activities are 'organised' now, parents ferry children from activity to activity. Children no longer cycle to their friends house to go to the park to play unsupervised. I think we do a disservice to our children by trying to 'fix' things for them, we shouldn't be approaching teachers to sort friendship issues. We've got to let children navigate their own paths as they grow up.
Sadly children who spend weekends with 'Disney Dads' are being let down by parents accommodating their every whim.
I think we just aren't preparing our children for the real world. They need to face adversary in childhood in order to develop the skills needed as an adult. By giving children extra time in exams, providing 'safe spaces' andclearing every obstacle out of their way isn't doing them any favours.

I agree we have lost our sense of community and there are too many parents who are angered by the thought of another adult telling off their child, I've seen it in action. As a result children grow up with little respect for adults because they know their parents will back them up however badly they've behaved. Teachers have little authority, police are powerless. Like the OP I despair thinking of the future state of our country.

BertieBotts · 19/05/2024 15:19

This report has a chart going back to 2007. It looks clear to me that in the early part of the 00s, we were getting to a good place with recognising and supporting SEND and then all the cuts/austerity came in and diagnosis numbers went massively down, as well as provision and support. But the numbers of pupils needing such support, logically they didn't go away, did they? They were still there but not being given the required support. Now it looks like numbers are rising massively but they aren't really if you look at this chart - they are catching up to where they were previously. So I think if there was to be an inquiry the first question needs to be whether numbers are actually rising or whether we are simply recognising better. (I understand that the numbers actually say "it's both").

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/64930eef103ca6001303a3a6/Special_educational_needs_and_disability_an_analysis_and_summary_of_data_sources.pdf

Worth noting that SEND does not only include diagnosed disabilities and learning disorders - it also includes SEMH (social, emotional and mental health) which used to be called things like "behavioural needs" and "disadvantaged background" - basically, it's covering any pupils who are likely to need extra support in school whether that's because they have a learning support need like dyslexia or they struggle with school due to having missed a lot of school, or because their home life is stressful or because they have never been given positive role models, as well as issues like ASD and ADHD and more profound disabilities ie pupils who would never have been in mainstream schools.

The Warnock report is a good one to look at too. This was from 1978 and estimated that 20-25% of all pupils would need some form of SEN support. So these numbers aren't new. Some history/development since Warnock here:
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/feduc.2019.00164/full

What actually seems to be the case is that up to the early 1990s or so, all of these issues existed but they weren't very visible to the average person. There were absolutely institutions, there were a lot more special schools, children may have been kept at home (similar to today) if it was felt they "couldn't cope" with school, but also it seems like pupils in older age ranges were largely left to it - it's hard for me to know because I was too young, but there are anecdotes all over - pupils truanting and a letter was written to the parents, but the pupil intercepted it easily so their parents never knew. Children were left to their own devices a lot more and it was seen as their own responsibility. Pupils not passing exams but it was not seen as a societal issue but a personal failure of the pupil. There are adults today who left school, legally, of age, with no qualifications but in those days nobody was totting it up for a spreadsheet and reporting it in the newspaper. It was taken for granted that some pupils wouldn't pass exams.

It seems to me like people saying "It's too expensive, we can't support such a high number, we need to know why the numbers are increasing so much!" are saying that it was better in the days when we just ignored that middle section of SEN pupils and we should go back to not trying to meet their needs at all.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/64930eef103ca6001303a3a6/Special_educational_needs_and_disability_an_analysis_and_summary_of_data_sources.pdf

MotherOfRatios · 19/05/2024 15:19

The key thing is austerity.

14 years of austerity has cut things that help children like sure starts youth clubs, it has cut council bridges and it has cut education budget. It has impacted the nhs. We now have more homeless children that has an impact on child development. We also have wage stagnation which means parents are often working longer and in really terrible jobs mean they can't be better as much for their children.

The inquiry should be on austerity the root cause.

twodogsbetterthanone · 19/05/2024 15:18

Aintnosupermum · 19/05/2024 15:10

I have 2 children all of who arrived at school needing help. Two are diagnosed with autism and the third with dyslexia. All 3 have been diagnosed with ADD. I agree that a public inquiry would be helpful because there is a problem with how children are being raised.

Being in the U.S. and having family living in the UK I’m able to see how the UK has followed US policies but implemented them differently and not applied the same funding. Another big huge problem is family court and the way children are divided between parents with little regard to what is best for the children. My experience has been that by 11, there are more children with separated parents than those with parents still together.

My experience as a parent is that their father is undiagnosed with autism and it’s greatly affected the children because he isn’t able to parent effectively. Now I’m divorced, I’m not able through the family court system in the U.S. to protect my children. Ideally I would have the children at my home every night and he would take the children during the day. It would be similar if I was in the UK. The current arrangement of week on week off means every other week they are struggling to follow class, school rules and they become disregulated. They come to me Monday evening, it takes me until Thursday to get them back. Schools refuse to get involved in custody cases, understandably so, but the courts are also very biased towards the non primary parent and there is much work to do on recognizing emotional abuse. I think most of the issues my children have would be resolved if the emotional abuse wasn’t an issue. Alas, never going to happen. I do question the ADD diagnosis of my children because it mimics the symptoms of trauma. The emotional abuse they saw and were subjected to by their father was so bad I didn’t want leave the marriage and there are times when I question if I should have waited until the children were a bit older.

As it is my eldest is 12 turning 13 shortly. My home is slow, steady, highly structured and child focused. Bedtime is at 7pm 7 nights a week with lights out at 7:30-8pm. We are up and out by 7:30am mid week and 7am at weekends (cycling or running the local trail to get Starbucks). Daddy is focused on his girlfriend. They go to her home every weekend so my children are seeing their father be with another woman overnight, there is a lot less structure, a lot of yelling and bedtime is as late as 10pm. He does some good things with them but I’m not thrilled my son, who at 11 has just learned how to ride a bike thanks to my sustained efforts, was allowed by his father to get on a motorbike yesterday. My son fell off after he drove into a bush and really hurt himself. My lawyers advice was to teach my son to not get on the motorbike. Hmmm ok. WTF are we doing people?!? This father should have supervised visitation and work towards day release with the children. Overnights should never happen. No wonder my son has struggled so much at school this year.

Call me old fashioned but my children know zero about my private life. They don’t know if I have a boyfriend. I’ve had two boyfriends which they have not been introduced to or known existed. Now I’m married to parenting my children. They really need me and I’m fortunate I’m able to prioritize them. Its a shame their fathers rights supersede the children’s. They deserve so much more.

this post really resonates with me.
I carry out screening assessments for ADHd and ASD and work with children who have these diagnoses too. Especially with ADHD, there is frequently a substantial degree of developmental trauma in their history, which makes me (privately and not openly) wonder
at how the diagnosis was reached.
They wouldn't have gone beyond an initial screening with me. Almost all have come from challenging backgrounds with shared care, blended families, acrimonious divorce and a need for their behaviour to be explained elsewhere. When it's clear and obvious that they're deeply disturbed by their experiences of early parenting and trauma. But nobody wants to talk about it.

Wisenotboring · 19/05/2024 15:15

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for privacy reasons.

This is all so true