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To think there needs to be a public inquiry into child development

592 replies

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 19/05/2024 11:53

It really seems like we have a looming societal crisis in terms of child development and therefore the quality of the public in 10-20 years time. Experienced teachers across the board seem to be reporting an overwhelming increase in delayed, aggressive and disruptive children. I’m extremely worried about how this will impact society when they become adults - it seems (as a guess) at least a tenth of children will be incapable of work of any kind, and many more will need copious amounts of support to live any kind of responsible life.

AIBU to think we need an urgent public inquiry into this and what is going on? It seems to be the elephant in the room and anybody who tries to discuss it is shouted down.

I’m sure some of it is due to cuts in services but surely that can’t account for it all - it’s very sudden and extremely alarming.

OP posts:
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Totallybannanas · 19/05/2024 18:35

We are seeing lots of behaviour, Sen and children with mental health. Some older children struggling to return to the education system following lockdown, this then has an ongoing effect. Younger children coming into early years, are no longer COVID babies but we are of parents are working, juggling stressful jobs. Also seeing a rise in gentle parenting, children don't like to hear the word no.

Isitovernow123 · 19/05/2024 18:35

stayathomer · 19/05/2024 12:19

BusyCM
I don't see much disruptive behaviour, I've been a cm for 15 years and have my own teens....most children are polite, well behaved, kind, engaged.... most of the time.
Well you’re very lucky, in my son’s school there’s someone suspended weakly, regular stories of pupils telling the teachers to eff off, breaking things, messing with dangerous equipment (eg woodwork saws, setting fires with Bunsen burners). My son doesn’t go to the bathroom in his school or use the lockers. And I hear it everywhere. And this is a ‘good’ school!!! I sometimes feel sorry for the kids sometimes though, son will say they’re nice but just mess, it’s like they can’t help it. I always think ‘at what point did it get to this for them and how will their story go’

ps yes I know that sounds weird and sappy, but my son would say if they were just assholes!!!

Edited

So the school is setting boundaries where the children’s parents do not?

Also, children are allowed to make mistakes and have sanctions - it’s called life learning.

SpudleyLass · 19/05/2024 18:34

WalkingonWheels · 19/05/2024 18:33

Sorry, but you don't need to inform me about the ins and outs of DLA and PIP. I know exactly how they work. I'm disabled. I've been disabled for many years.

It's relatively easy to get DLA for a child. They don't even need an assessment like adults who claim PIP. There are many parents who lie and exaggerate to claim DLA. It happens.

So how are you to claim who is genuine or not, if you can simply make the bold claim that some are just lying?

OneLemonOrca · 19/05/2024 18:34

I say don’t worry about it. The problem will sort itself out. Autism is genetic, it has always existed, so has anxiety. Everyone will just have to learn about their disability or mental health condition, and learn how to cope in life like the generations before them have

luckylms · 19/05/2024 18:33

It is worth saying that uk have shocking therapies for children
we always compare medical treatment etc uk Vs USA

you know that my DD in the USA wouks be entitled to weekly 2 x speech / physio / OT
for free

uk - you get if your extremely lucky
physio a 6 week block then re refer then wait again,
ot 6 times per year
SLT again pre education services some 6 week block then wait again
education SLT
6 times a year.

mumedu · 19/05/2024 18:33

Friendofdennis · 19/05/2024 17:51

Perhaps some people are not talking enough to their children and so the children are not learning a wide range of vocabulary. Babies learn by watching their parents mouths forming words as well as by listening. How many times have you seen a parent pushing a prom with the baby facing them (an ideal time to talk to the baby ) whilst on the phone or sitting at a table in a cafe with every family member including young children on a screen … or worst of all ( seen the other day ) the children trying to engage with the parents who are both on screens. It’s really sad

This couldn't be more true.

WalkingonWheels · 19/05/2024 18:33

SpudleyLass · 19/05/2024 18:29

Diagnosis alone cannot qualify their children for DLA. They must be reasonably impacted by it.

My daughter receives it because she struggles with her speech, emotional regulation and doesn't perceive danger as a peer of her age would do.

Sorry, but you don't need to inform me about the ins and outs of DLA and PIP. I know exactly how they work. I'm disabled. I've been disabled for many years.

It's relatively easy to get DLA for a child. They don't even need an assessment like adults who claim PIP. There are many parents who lie and exaggerate to claim DLA. It happens.

mumedu · 19/05/2024 18:30

TeaPleaseX · 19/05/2024 16:17

I have adhd so far passed it on to 3 of my kids. One is extremely disruptive in school and is moving to a sen school finally. The other 2 cope okay in school seem to be alright grade wise.

What I have noticed in some people who know my children, they are very quick to label their child the same as mine and say their child has the same issues. Where I see children who are unmotivated, stuck on tablets, parents leaving them to do whatever they like. No guidance, basically terrible parenting. I think in a way it's become an easy thing to say about your child.

If I had known my kids would be like this I'd of stopped at 1 but we are where we are and it'll be okay. It's very hard work our house is extremely chaotic but also full of happiness and laughter so it's a crazy balance.

This is lovely. Stay strong and appreciate the goodness you have.

Totallybannanas · 19/05/2024 18:30

Cluborange666 · 19/05/2024 12:08

I agree. I think it’s a mix of overworked parents (capitalism) and a really unchildfriendly education system (I work in education). Also very poor mental health services.

Agree totally.

Charl1991 · 19/05/2024 18:29

have you seen the film Idiocracy?

WalkingonWheels · 19/05/2024 18:29

luckylms · 19/05/2024 18:16

I am interested in where everyone’s kids are at 6.14 pm on a Sunday whilst the parents debate on a form of tech that other parents who sit on tech instead of interacting with their children are doing ?

Mine are in the garden mowing the lawn and pegging out the laundry.

SpudleyLass · 19/05/2024 18:29

WalkingonWheels · 19/05/2024 18:27

True, but people's attitudes have changed. Now it's all about entitlement and what their child is entitled to, how to get it, what extremes to go to. I've met many parents who ask me to say that their child has ADHD or Autism so that they can get DLA. In reality, those children are poorly behaved because they have shit parents. This also makes it difficult for children who actually do have autism etc to get support.

Then these children grow up, in an environment where everything is all about what you can get while doing absolutely nothing, and the cycle worsens. It's not like that everywhere, granted, but in certain areas I've taught in, it absolutely is.

Then there are people who keep having children when they've been advised not to. One parent I know had a severely disabled child. They were both told that they are "genetically incompatible" and that any future children would also have severe disabilities. They were gently advised not to have any more children. So they had four more. All with severe disability, complex needs and neither parent works. Then they complain online to anyone and everyone about how disgusting the level of support for the children they chose to have is. And now their oldest is pregnant. And the cycle keeps going. I say that as a disabled person myself - of course people have the right to have as many children as they choose. I'm just not sure why a couple would choose to have five, knowing they'd all be very disabled, knowing they had no money.

It's difficult. I don't think anything will change while we have this culture of entitlement, but then the people who actually do need support would suffer. I don't know what the answer is, or even if there is one. What I do know is that behaviour, needs and teacher retention are worsening daily.

Diagnosis alone cannot qualify their children for DLA. They must be reasonably impacted by it.

My daughter receives it because she struggles with her speech, emotional regulation and doesn't perceive danger as a peer of her age would do.

mumedu · 19/05/2024 18:29

MaryMaryVeryContrary · 19/05/2024 11:53

It really seems like we have a looming societal crisis in terms of child development and therefore the quality of the public in 10-20 years time. Experienced teachers across the board seem to be reporting an overwhelming increase in delayed, aggressive and disruptive children. I’m extremely worried about how this will impact society when they become adults - it seems (as a guess) at least a tenth of children will be incapable of work of any kind, and many more will need copious amounts of support to live any kind of responsible life.

AIBU to think we need an urgent public inquiry into this and what is going on? It seems to be the elephant in the room and anybody who tries to discuss it is shouted down.

I’m sure some of it is due to cuts in services but surely that can’t account for it all - it’s very sudden and extremely alarming.

Teacher here. Yes, I do worry about this. It is due to the cuts in public services, CAHMS/ mental health, school budgets, COL crisis and covid. Don't need an inquiry.

AsproutdeserveslifenotjustChristmas · 19/05/2024 18:28

helpfulperson · 19/05/2024 17:58

There is also evidence that risks of additional needs increase with older mothers and possibly IVF etc. For older children eg secondary age foetal alcohol syndrome is also a big factor.

I agree we need an enquiry but it needs to dare to ask the unaskable questions.

But I’m autistic and my mother was 25 when she had me, but my children are Autistic because I had them at without IVF at 35 & 39? I don’t take drugs, my children were full term, not underweight.
It’s just trying to attitude blame to people with these theories of low birth weights and IVF that doesn’t apply to everyone.

WalkingonWheels · 19/05/2024 18:27

BertieBotts · 19/05/2024 16:06

This isn't new though. Drug addicts and people "of low intelligence" have always had children. Surely even more so before modern inventions like long acting reversible contraception (implant, coil etc).

True, but people's attitudes have changed. Now it's all about entitlement and what their child is entitled to, how to get it, what extremes to go to. I've met many parents who ask me to say that their child has ADHD or Autism so that they can get DLA. In reality, those children are poorly behaved because they have shit parents. This also makes it difficult for children who actually do have autism etc to get support.

Then these children grow up, in an environment where everything is all about what you can get while doing absolutely nothing, and the cycle worsens. It's not like that everywhere, granted, but in certain areas I've taught in, it absolutely is.

Then there are people who keep having children when they've been advised not to. One parent I know had a severely disabled child. They were both told that they are "genetically incompatible" and that any future children would also have severe disabilities. They were gently advised not to have any more children. So they had four more. All with severe disability, complex needs and neither parent works. Then they complain online to anyone and everyone about how disgusting the level of support for the children they chose to have is. And now their oldest is pregnant. And the cycle keeps going. I say that as a disabled person myself - of course people have the right to have as many children as they choose. I'm just not sure why a couple would choose to have five, knowing they'd all be very disabled, knowing they had no money.

It's difficult. I don't think anything will change while we have this culture of entitlement, but then the people who actually do need support would suffer. I don't know what the answer is, or even if there is one. What I do know is that behaviour, needs and teacher retention are worsening daily.

luckylms · 19/05/2024 18:27

IDontOftenComment · 19/05/2024 18:25

DLA – Disability Living Allowance is non means tested financial support from the UK government for people with a mental or physical disability to provide assistance with personal care or mobility needs. It is a benefit to help with additional costs related to disability, illness and health.

Taken from The Autism Page.

Not everyone with autism gets it though
it’s not based on a diagnosis.

mumedu · 19/05/2024 18:27

PerfectTravelTote · 19/05/2024 12:05

How are you defining the "quality of the public"?

Um...empathy, social skills, the ability to compromise and manage your emotions, the ability to be productive and show resilience through adversity, good communication skills...?

SpudleyLass · 19/05/2024 18:27

IDontOftenComment · 19/05/2024 18:25

DLA – Disability Living Allowance is non means tested financial support from the UK government for people with a mental or physical disability to provide assistance with personal care or mobility needs. It is a benefit to help with additional costs related to disability, illness and health.

Taken from The Autism Page.

Yes, but its based on actual care needs - not a diagnosis

And I should know, my ASD child with an underlying genetic disorder receives it.

People need to educate themselves instead of spouting uneducated bilge about disability benefits.

Allthesea · 19/05/2024 18:26

luckylms · 19/05/2024 18:13

Look at the decrease in mortality rates
we are lucky that many of our children who were born with problems and also premature babies are surviving more. These children are more likely to have development delays and SEN including speech etc

The drop from 1900 to 1930 is amazing! That’s when antibiotics were invented isn’t it?

Littlestminnow · 19/05/2024 18:26

Andrea87 · 19/05/2024 18:18

I would put a lot of blame on technology.

Parents used to talk to their children from young age much more in the past than now from what I can see.
Nowadays I see people pushing a pram and talking on their phone rather than talking to the child and capturing their interest.
I see parents out eating with their very young children, giving them an iPad to play with rather than engage in a conversation with them .
These are opportunities when children have to hear, digest what is said and respond. This impacts on their listening and communication skills.

Plus the idea of parenting is sometimes saying NO to something and having clear boundaries.
Social media also can have a negative effect.

Then there are environmental factors - the food we eat filled with hormones and pesticides can’t be good.
Plus where do so many men put their mobiles - right next to the sperm making department, often for many hours a day. That can’t be good and although people say that hasn’t been proven to have a negative effect, do we really know?

Plus as early years teachers we have so many things to cover and tick off which don’t necessarily enhance a child’s learning.
When I started teaching many years ago, the nursery curriculum was a few pages long, I was trusted to teach and could concentrate on doing this rather than documenting everything, taking photos of this and that and interrupting the flow of teaching and learning. Not spending time on ‘showing evidence’ that so-and-so could do this. It takes away time from actual teaching doing this. Time which is finite and precious in a nursery morning/ afternoon.
I knew what each child could do and how to move on their learning. Teaching was a wonderful profession to be in. I was trusted and respected. I miss those days.

If you look at countries that have superb educational results, they learn through play until a child is ready to learn more formally. Children learn to write when they are ready to hold a pencil and not forced to do so. And don’t get me started on phonics and reading too early!

Apologies for such a long post but I am passionate about early years learning and the many missed opportunities for young children.

The countries with the best educational results, eg. Finland, don't even start kids in formal schooling until they they are 7.

IDontOftenComment · 19/05/2024 18:25

SpudleyLass · 19/05/2024 18:09

I beg your pardon?

''Extra 500 a month for diagnosed children''. Can tell where you've pulled this from, as if you haven't even said which diagnosis supposedly gets parents this.

Its certainly not autism.

DLA – Disability Living Allowance is non means tested financial support from the UK government for people with a mental or physical disability to provide assistance with personal care or mobility needs. It is a benefit to help with additional costs related to disability, illness and health.

Taken from The Autism Page.

Viviennemary · 19/05/2024 18:25

No I don't think there needs to be a public enquiry. There have always been children who are badly behaved, no consequences in schools for bad behaviour.

Alalalalalongalalalalalonglonglilong · 19/05/2024 18:25

@Notoyoutube that's half the problem thought isn't it? We are often more afraid of the judgement of neighbours or society than we are of the harm to the child.

Littlestminnow · 19/05/2024 18:24

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for privacy reasons.

Sure, but how about other periods in modern history, such as the war years? Surely they were even more stressful, but we didn't see the same effects in children/schools. Or at least not as far as I am aware.

Allthesea · 19/05/2024 18:23

mitogoshi · 19/05/2024 12:18

I agree op that there is an issue, I have my own completely unproven theory as to why but people won't like it - however my friend who a child development specialist working for camhs completely agrees with me - it's screens, not just for the youngsters but their caregivers ignoring them for too much of the time. She also thinks young children do too many organised activities and not enough free play in the 1-4 age group. Her dc are teens, one neurodiverse, so she does understand that side but she isn't convinced that congenital neurodivergence is the who story, she thinks we are requiring toddlers brains, I'm not necessarily convinced but something is afoot

I am a child psychologist and I 100% agree with you.