To think that no newly qualified lawyer can be worth a salary of £150k?

Get a decent degree and relevant work experience and voluntary work experience and experience as team captain of the school/Uni rugby or netball team, and successfully navigate the online application process, get through the online aptitude tests etc., and you'll be snapped up by a top 10 firm.

You really won't - times have changed, it's extraordinarily competitive and outstanding candidates fail even to get called to interview. Way too many applicants for available training contracts

OP I hate to tell you this but I work for a magic circle firm in London (far from snobby) and the top corporate PAs get paid £60k plus bonus, so I think you have been selling yourself very short as a partner.

Law in London is one of those careers where you aren't paid to do a job, you are paid to get the job done, whatever that entails and at whatever cost to your own life and plans. It's only right that the pay reflects the level of commitment and hard work required.

You were rather selective with your quote of my post weren’t you? If you look at my post again you will see I referred to specialist areas. No, I don’t expect a regional firm to do those, but the large London firms are doing much more than that.
I don’t even work at one of the regional firms. Im at a fairly small niche commercial practice and speak from experience that it can pretty awful when I get someone junior from a city firm on the other side in a transaction. They have no practical experience and often work on the basis of “it’s my way or the highway”. If I’m dealing with a regional firm I know that my opposite number and I will be working together to get the deal done.

I work in a US firm paying that plus substantial bonuses if you do the hours to earn them (I certainly do not).

We pay that much because if you get the best people in as trainees and NQs you hopefully keep them until they are senior enough to be worth it. That said, when I was an NQ I billed enough hours to cover my salary five times over working on cases in the hundreds of millions or billions - the firms get their money’s worth. Intelligent, competent graduates are not going to sign away their lives (which is what the early years in city law amounts to) for less if they can get more at the firm next door.

What someone is paid as a solicitor in a smaller regional firm doing different work is totally irrelevant. The graduates we are competing for are more likely to be looking at other city jobs (banking or consulting which are often paid much better) as their alternatives, not regional or high street law. There’s nothing wrong with choosing a slower pace with a lower salary, I often wonder if I would be happier if I did, but it’s not right to resent those who choose the other way.

thats the thing with some people, they are omg at the wages that are earned but then thats due to the nature of the role etc in magic circle firms

MC firms pay big wages and by God they get it all back out of you and more.

If you wanted to make big money: (a) you shouldn't have gone into the Law (banks and insurance pay way better at the top) and (b) you shouldn't have stayed in the provinces.

They wanted me because I was a junior lawyer with rare experience in a narrow field that was about to be very big in the City. Fell over themselves tripled the salary I was on - charm offensive.

To misquote Orwell… All lawyers are equal, but some lawyers are more equal than others”

Sure… you know my friendship circle better than I do. But I’m not going to argue… sigh.

Ah, thanks, yes, a definite possibility.

@taxguru Get a decent degree and relevant work experience and voluntary work experience and experience as team captain of the school/Uni rugby or netball team, and successfully navigate the online application process, get through the online aptitude tests etc., and you'll be snapped up by a top 10 firm.

And even then you may not! One firm had 6000 applicants this year for 9 TC places.

@harrietm87

As for my trainee intake - they were certainly not the brightest - mostly privately educated, 2.1s from Russell Group unis - but organised, efficient, hardworking, good interpersonal skills and knew how to play the game.

Nail on the head there. The actual qualification is only part of the bigger picture. It's all the other skills that matter, potentially more important. It's exactly why employers want candidates who can demonstrate skills in areas beyond the degree/qualification, such as work experience, voluntary work, sports teams, Uni rep experience, hobbies/interests, etc., and why there's such an emphasis these days on psychometric tests, online aptitude tests, etc.

Get a decent degree and you'll be snapped up by a typical small town solicitor/accountant practice etc.

Get a decent degree and relevant work experience and voluntary work experience and experience as team captain of the school/Uni rugby or netball team, and successfully navigate the online application process, get through the online aptitude tests etc., and you'll be snapped up by a top 10 firm.

Often what the big clients are paying for is that availability as well. My small town conveyancer is going to tell me to piss off if I want to call at 8am on a Sunday with queries about my house purchase (which they rightly should!)

Yes it's a lot of money. Jobs in law are as variable as jobs in medícine. There is a huge variation between the skills and salary of a country GP and a top consultant in a hospital. In the same way there is no comparison between chamber or regional criminal or family law and city corporate law. Being able to work hard and work well for 12-18 hour days and at least one day every weekend and at high pressure while having the intellectual capacity to do complicated things, perform mental gymnastics, smile and remain professional with clients and others at all times and look immaculate, isn't for everyone!

These firms are paying it because they can and because it means they have access to the best brains and people who are highly motivated to live to work and maximise fee income. I'm not expressing any view as to sense or morality- just saying it as it is.

It has never been harder to access law firm traineeships. For magic circle firms your chances are low of even making the first cut if you're not an Oxbridge or sometimes good Russell group first class degree holder plus having secured holiday internships in similar firms or industry from your first year at uni - so from when you're 18/19. Even to secure an internship will require a couple of online tests, recorded interview and full day or more assessment centre. A young relative was one of 100 candidates at such an assessment centre for a regional firm and that was the first cut from a couple of thousand.

In many cases now young law students and others have to work in low paid jobs or as paralegals for a good few years before securing a training contract or SQA funding. Its not easy.

At the end of the day, the MC firms are recharging these newly qualified staff at more than their salaries and other employment costs, so they're making money out of them, even if they have to pay what appears to be stupidly high wages. The fact is that their clients are willing to pay very high hourly rates so it's a value judgement by the client. Just like someone willing to pay thousands for a handbag or a pair of shoes despite the actual handbag or shoes costing just £50 or whatever in raw materials!

A bog standard small town practice solicitor or accountant is doing a completely different type of work. Mrs Miggins only wants to pay £150 for her bog standard will. Joe Smith only wants to pay £1,000 for his house purchase conveyance. You can't be paying £150k for a trainee solicitor when you have clients like that. Even the senior partners won't be earning £150k with clients like that!!

Yet someone like Tyson Fury will want "something special" when it comes to his multi million pound business dealings, property portfolio, business portfolios, etc., spanning worldwide income, worldwide assets, worldwide taxation, etc., and will be paying a thousand per hour to his solicitor who has the knowledge/experience in handling multi millionaire clients.

It may be the same qualification, but the type of work, type of client, etc will be completely different requiring different skill sets.

It’s not always quite as extreme as some pps have said - as a trainee in these firms you will need to work the crazy hours, but if you’re smart on qualification and choose a more niche advisory team (employment, competition, tax, reg) you can have a reasonable work life balance, which (as pps have said) improves as you get more senior.

Im in litigation which can sometimes be incredibly intense but is generally not as bad as corporate/finance. When I qualified into a “silver circle” firm 10 years ago salaries were half what they were now but I’d also say I’ve had a good run - patches of hard work, weekday plans definitely rare, but weekend and holiday work also infrequent. Im now at a US firm paying NQs at a similar level and am senior enough that I can control my diary to a certain extent. I’ve got 2 small kids and still feel my work life balance is reasonable.

As for my trainee intake - they were certainly not the brightest - mostly privately educated, 2.1s from Russell Group unis - but organised, efficient, hardworking, good interpersonal skills and knew how to play the game. I’m from
a working class background with much better academics yet have still never felt I’ve truly fitted in.

Yes, I know that. I was more thinking more the companies they are working for and need to be on hand 24/7 to deal with M&A etc... you are at the end of the day merely protecting their financial interests.

Nothing wrong with that, money makes the world go round and all that, but it is a lot to sacrifice your personal life for IMO. If it wasn't in their financial interest these companies wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire.

Everyone knows part of the high pay/long hours is because those big corporate clients demand presence.

Actually law firms aren't corporations but partnerships (or LLP) meaning it wasn't a corporation he made richer but himself as a business co-owner.

As others have said in this profession and at that level you make choices. Some do it for the long haul. Some do it for a set period and set themselves up to walk into the highest level at regional firms. The OP chose a different route and on that salary is presumably at a not great high street type practice.

Now I get you may be dyslexic but even a dyslexic solicitor would know how to spell private "practice".

If you are in a high street type practice in SW Devon you simply aren't doing the same type of work as "snobby" London firms.

That's exactly it. And the law firms (etc) are looking for the people willing to do that, not particularly the "brightest and best". Quite a lot of those headed for MC at my law school were decidedly average academically (well, within the law school intake) but they were avaricious and driven.

Sadly several burnt out and at least one became desperately ill, but for others the gamble paid off.

I think big pensions/insurance is less awful than MC or big four grad schemes. A lot of the big pension and insurance providers are big now on better working policies. For example Aviva were out of the blocks early on enhanced paternity leave.

They aren't doubting the veracity of the salaries in London.... Just the authenticity of the Op

Short term pain for long term gain.

Speculate to accumulate.

Quite simply, it suits some people at that time of life and sets them up for the future. Just a matter of knowing it's short term, use it as a stepping stone, and move on when the time is right. It's not as if they sleep under their desks every day - that's pretty rare and there are plenty of days when they have normal days.

My son works for one of the biggest pension/insurance firms. He's only been there a few months and is well paid for a graduate entry job. The work load is very lumpy - some days nothing to do with lots of flexibility for late starts, early finishes, long lunch hours etc., then some days are very early starts and late finishes and at various times of the year, it's full on weekend working. The rough cancels out the smooth. None of that is controlled/monitored by time sheets - it's all done on mutual understanding/respect basis within his very close knit team. They know what work needs doing, they work together to make it happen, whatever it takes.

One of my housemates at law school freely admitted that she was only going to a MC firm because she wanted to meet a rich husband and then stop working...

Dh to thank for that. He was given the nod that he was on the partnership track but he didn’t want to live that life and miss out on his family. So we both bailed for the West Country - colleagues were shocked ! We left early thirties before we got too embedded. We saw the family lives of the solicitors at the next life stage to us and we didn’t want that for us.