Schools insistence on uniform rules are behind the times

I had a rotten time at school, not school uniform related (I toed the line there) but the allied topic of personal appearance.
Schools with a strict uniform policy often try to also dictate other aspects of your appearance like hair style/colour jewellery tattoos etc.
This is over reach because they are trying to dictate how you look in your own time away from school.
Appearance should be a matter between the child and his/her parents, not the school.
In my view, schools should be trying to prepare kids for adult life, not press unreasonable rules upon them.
Although I did not get into trouble over uniform issues, at the I thought the head and staff were hypocrites, if they love uniforms so much, why don’t they wear one?

I remember reading a book by the old High Mistress of St Paul’s School for Girls (a really terrifyingly high achieving independent school with no uniform). She said that, provided it wasn’t offensive and didn’t stop them learning, she couldn’t care less what they wore. There would be the odd outlier (one girl dressed like a panda) but nearly all the girls wore jeans and a hoody.

The thing with insisting on the children being super smart is that the schools themselves often don’t uphold their end of the deal. I remember being given a hard time for wearing pink socks (they introduced a white socks only policy in September after all the school stuff had been bought).

At least a third of my lessons were in shabby huts (freezing in winter, boiling in summer, a nuisance to get to on time). When our exercise books ran out, we’d be given sheets of paper because they’d run out of new exercise books. Assemblies were awful because there wasn’t enough space for everyone to sit cross legged on the floor. There weren’t enough rounders bats and some were broken. The toilets were disgusting.

Quite a few of these things were down to budget issues but kicking off at someone for wearing black shoes with yellow stitching when you expect them to learn in shabby conditions is weird. One friend with very large feet had to carry a note from her mum because the Doc Martins shoes really were the only school shoes she could get in her size.

There is a balance though isn’t there. I quite like the concept of uniform but I think blazers are stupid - totally impractical and expensive.

I think it is interesting though that half the time I see the older girls at the private schools locally, they’re in a tracksuit or the pe kit. I actually very rarely see them in the proper uniform.

I live about 300m away from the local college. In September it is a fashion parade.
By October they dress like normal humans. Then in the summer... a few days of ridiculously short shorts and strappy crop tops... then they come to their senses.

Have you seen how teenagers dress these days? A uniform creates a level playing field.

I agree with this - because when I was at school in Sheffield in the early 80s when David Blunkett’s authority abolished compulsory school uniform it very quickly became a fashion parade and kids who didn’t have the latest trainers had a hard time.

What I don’t accept is that uniform leads to higher educational attainment- utter nonsense. I lived in Austria in the 80s - no school uniform but significantly better pupil behaviour and higher educational standards.

I like uniform, but don't see why they can't stick with the dark trousers, polo & school coloured jumper, like they have at primary.

@Sashikocheck yes primary but also very aware of what the local secondary school kids wear. A black hoodie and black leggings. What you're describing re needing leotards and all the branded sports equipment bears no resemblance to the secondary schools around here. I'm in Scotland though. What you're describing would be what private school children need up here.

Why can’t schools offer to just buy the badge for those parents (or other relatives living nearby) to sew on a sweatshirt? Then you can buy a standard sweatshirt (doesn’t matter if a small logo is where the school badge sits). Probably saves you about £15 a top.

I've supported many families who have found the cost of uniform absolutely crippling. And I've been horrified by the cost of it in relation to the quality: cheap and nasty acrylic jumpers for a price I could buy a pure lambswool one in M&S, but you have to buy the one with an embroidered logo from the only "approved" supplier.

I worked with a family who were in temporary accommodation because they were homeless. They had to move 3 times in 4 years, each move involved a change of schools and the poor woman had to replace all the uniform for 3 children. It cost her an absolute fortune. The day her teenage son came home from school with the sole hanging off his school shoes, she broke down and cried. I took her to a charity shop to get a second hand pair.

I wonder what research has been done on this internationally. Are children in schools without uniforms in other countries systematically bullied for ‘wearing that same thing 2 days ago’ or do parents in general dread arguments each morning with an, ‘you’re not wearing that!’ conversation each morning. What are the school rules like about what they can/can’t wear?

I went to quite an old fashioned girls’ grammar in the 80s and whilst there was a uniform, it’s not strictly enforced in the same way my own DC is. There was a colour that you had to wear, and a blazer, jumper, school skirt and tie-but you didn’t actually have to wear many ‘specific’ ones. The blazer and jumper weren’t compulsory, and you just had to wear the tie in the winter and could wear an open necked blouse in the summer. As long as the skirt was the right colour and sort of length, it was ok, and you couldn’t wear boots. It all seemed fairly sensible, but maybe that allowed too much boundary pushing from some which is why they tightened it up?!

In the sixth form, we could wear our own clothes which I loved. It felt far more like college and the novelty about ‘what are you going to wear tomorrow’ wore off after about the first week and everyone just wore jeans!

My kids went to the same school as me years later and they have become draconian about their rules-particular clothes only from set shops, uniform in the sixth form, not leaving the site in the sixth form when you don’t have a lesson for the rest of the day etc. it seems unnecessarily strict to me.

There is a non uniform secondary in our town. Judging by the photos, it does seem to be just jeans, sports leggings, t shirts, hoodies sort of thing. They use it as a selling point...

It is however part of their wider alternative curriculum (which Unfortunately doesn't appear to be working.... and felt a bit cult-luke)

I dont think parents overwhelmingly choose schools with uniform. In a 20 mile radius of us (barring SEN schools) there is not a single school that doesn't have uniform so parents are not given the choice! I would love to open a non uniform school and see how it goes. I think it would surprise a lot of academies.

But kids need different outfits every day of the 13 weeks of school holidays so they have those clothes anyway.

Did you have to buy your uniform for work though? Shell out £500 for it before you started?

That's the difference if you didn't have to pay for it. It also isn't practical in a school setting most of the time. Kids sweltering in blazers etc..... I'm sure if yoy get hot you don't have to wait for your boss to come around and say you can take off your jacket/cardigan etc.....

I don't think so.

DD was at a non-uniform primary that acquired uniform after she had been there for a bit. Then she went to a non-uniform secondary. The only time she's been fussed about wearing the 'right' clothes was on mufti days while she had a uniform. Uniforms tell people that what they are wearing matters. Non-uniform doesn't.

Much easier to have a uniform and stops kids, wearing inappropriate clothes to school and avoids comments like "oh my god you wore that two days ago. Don't you have any different clothes?"
Virtually every job I've had has involved uniform of some sort. All the adults I worked with seemed to cope with uniform so I'm sure kids can manage it too.

As others have said, uniforms are a great equaliser. It saved me from a lot of anxiety growing up. And as for strict rules like earrings, hair dye, skirt length, etc - to my mind that’s all about standards. I think of it like table manners or polite speech; you don’t have to adhere to the standards all the time, but you need to be able to when required. It’s a life skill.

There’s still plenty of time for self expression when you’re young, and self expression through other channels (art, music, sport) should be encouraged as well. I don’t believe anyone’s creativity is truly stifled because they have to wear a shirt and tie until 4pm as a teenager.

I commute on the train. The only people dressing formally are the school kids.
All blokes wear smart jeans and poss a polo shirt.
However, a school uniform sorts out all sorts of issues. Dd3 is about to finish year 11 and her school is strict on uniform. I think she has had 2 blazers, 4 skirts and maybe 6/8 blouses. Add in maybe 3 pairs of docs/kickers.
Hell of a lot cheaper than the nightmare of "what to wear to School for 5 years!"

Where we live most schools have a dreas code rather than a uniform, it causes the same problems as like in the UK a significant number of pupils ignore the dress code so have to be sent home to change etc. Last week it was warm here too, a boy walked into school when I was dropping our son off in a pair of shorts and no top, not having uniform doesn’t get rid of the problem.

I post this on every uniform thread but here goes. Teachers hate uniform. They hate wasting lesson time discussing trainers, blazers , shirt tucked in, skirt length etc etc.

Parents overwhelmingly choose schools with uniform because it removes the arguments about clothing from home to school. And because we’re led to believe private schools are the best, they like that their school mimics that ethos.

There is no evidence that uniform improves learning ~ as schools throughout Europe and the US demonstrate.

Once you have uniform, the school has to enforce it or it gets undermined logo by logo. The day we get set free from uniform will be worth celebrating and teachers will be first in the queue.

I've been a primary teacher for 15 years and love my child's school's policy of non-uniform. I also loved it during the summer term of 2020 when R,Y1 and Y6 were were back in my school in non-uniform. This thread is almost like 2 different discussions at once though - primary and secondary are very different beasts.

I’m pro uniform. Kids don’t need to ‘express themselves’ through clothes at school.

I'm a fan of simple, affordable uniform.

The total cost of everything that has to be bought at the uniform shop for DDs school is... £45 (blazer, tie, pe tshirt). Plus obviously the shirts, trousers, pe shorts/leggings, shoes, but they are all generic. Small logos allowed (like a Nike tick, but not big letters down the whole leg).
They ask that haircuts are low maintenance to avoid pressure for expensive ones.

The school skirt is unfortunately expensive m, but girls can wear trousers. They could do with making that a generic grey instead.

Second hand is easily obtainable through both the school and local church.

Maybe the blazer could be replaced with a hoodie or sweat shirt. Or the shirts with a polo shirt (but white polos look horrible quickly... maybe a pale blue...)