Widows vs Single mums and divorcees

Bore off now, this post isn’t about you. You said your piece, I thought you were rude and my opinion hasn’t changed.

OP, apologies for this back and forth. I clicked on your post as its title piqued my interest; I’m a lone parent, my son’s father has no input (financial or otherwise) into his life or upbringing.

I don’t actually know any widows, or at least not knowingly, so I don’t have any firsthand experience to reflect on and share. I can believe what you’ve observed to be true though, it fits well with the narrative of the deserving and undeserving needy, and the Madonna-whore complex; with widows in your example being the deserving and pure, and the rest of us being undeserving and spoiled.

I don’t have anything useful to say really, but I was sorry to read that you’ve not even had that support and sympathy from your own parents. Raising one child alone is tough, but three while dealing with the aftermath of an abusive relationship is remarkable. Huge kudos to you, and to all of the women on here who have continued to be present and productive for their children in the face of adversity - with or without the support of family, friends and fundraisers.

Much love ❤️

Most people have a visceral reaction to death. This is what your parents are responding to. They are helping a woman whose husband has died; they’re not helping a solo mum.

I think there is some truth to what you're saying OP. I know two women (one widowed, one divorced) with kids the same age and who work for the same company. The widowed woman gets more flexibility re: time off to look after her kids, working from home etc, than the divorcee, even though she has a much better support network locally (has both sets of grandparents local, and other family/friends). The divorcee is Polish and has no support network, but is expected to just manage.

I wouldn’t be pitting these groups against each other though some of the posts on this thread have rather proved your point.

And the idea that a child whose father has abandoned by them might be fine because of the “hope” of seeing their father in future is very odd. It’s hugely traumatic to have a parent choose to abandon you.

That said I have had lots of offers of help and made some really supportive friends since becoming a single parent, though I do try to ensure I’m reciprocating where I can.

I also find it strange your parents offered help to someone else's' dd not their own whatever the situation.. but I don't think there's any point in drawing comparisons between widows and divorcees.

Just sick .You are just ...

Nice one, Hun.

Well, that's got 'class' written all over it, hasn't it? WTF?

Nah, you’re right. Calling someone a ‘jealous twat’ is pure class 👌👌👌

Nice one, Hun.

Not this!

Women and children are NOT RESPONSIBLE for men and fathers actions (just as men are not responsible for women's actions obviously)

My ex didn't show his true colours until after the third child was conceived you can claim "there were signs" all you like but everyone EVERYONE has a rough patch occasionally and works through it like an adult we were actually doing great till I got pregnant and he lost his Job even then you can say that's what caused the stress not that he was an abusive wanker turns out he chose the abusive wanker route trashed mine and my children's lives and walked away from them even now HE gets the sympathy not the children it's insane as a society we blame victims constantly put the blame where it belongs

I'd call assuming that everyone is a widow 'gets' x,y, z, while single mothers only get condemnation and no help from family being a massive prick. I'd call making a post called 'Widows vs Single mums and divorcees'as though it's some kind of competition, being a massive prick.

I haven't said anything about anyone's experience being 'sadder' - that's your own poor reading. In fact, I haven't made any comment about anyone's expeirence being more worthy than another's - I wouldn't be that crass.

I completely get you. One of my closest friends is a widow. We have children the same age. I'm a single parent due to my ex being a serial cheat and liar. It's awful that she lost husband and the children their father. She has unlimited help and support from her family and her husbands family. School have given her unlimited FREE wrap around and holiday care. She is mortgage free, and has plenty of money to do what ever she wishes with. They eat out all the time, holiday all the time. They are well and truly taken care of physical and financially. Both of my parents have died, i have no family to support me. I carry all the mental workload for my children their dad swans in and out of their life as he pleases. He packed up work so no child maintenance. I earn just enough that I don't receive any benefits, but have to watch every single penny, there's no treats, no meals out, no time to myself. I worry about something going wrong with the car or an unexpected bill all the time. I sometimes feel envious of the life she leads, which makes me feel guilty as I know she's give it all up in an instant to have her husband back. OP I get what your saying, you can't help feeling that way. Single mums are definitely looked down on in society in a kind of "you made you bed, you lay in it" sort of way. Most single mums didn't chose to be a single mum.

Men with young or even teenage children rarely die nice quiet deaths as they are relatively young, it's either a traumatic accident or a nasty type of aggressive cancer or suicide. It's not going to be 'their time' in any sense, although you might be glad they are relieved of suffering.

I would never downplay the trauma of being abandoned by a parent either. I know people who claim not to care they don't have a dad, and I know people devastated by it. Not knowing your dad plays on people's minds in a very cruel way I think and I do agree people might either not know about it or not be as sympathetic as they could be.

Others will think it much easier to start out without a dad rather than have one and have them disappear. Dads who go in and out of children's lives cause a lot of emotional damage, often ongoing for a long time.

I'm waiting for those who think their husband going away for a few days is a bit similar to arrive...

A lot of really terrible “well you chose this” comments to a woman who was in an abusive relationship. Vile.
And it’s arguably more damaging for a child to have a father who abandoned them than died.

Op, huge hugs, Id say as said above ask for help if you need it. Even thinking the post you’ve posted means you need someone to give you a break (I really mean this) x

What a horrible close to your post. And such a poor reading of what the OP is even about. She’s stating that she’s observed a hierarchy in lone-parenthood; that how - in her lived experience which is no less valid than yours just because yours is arguably sadder - single mothers that have found themselves such through circumstances other than the death of the child(ren)’s father are viewed less sympathetically. And it is those value judgements of others that she is lamenting.

I’m sorry for your loss but it’s no reason to be a massive prick.

I say I'm a single parent if asked, I don't say I'm a widow, that's too stressful for people.

Death is an absolute, and generally people 'know' how to react appropriately: sympathy, offers of help, hushed voices, sombre clothes for the funeral.

Divorce is far more fluid: you might have divorced a 'perfectly good' husband, or he might have been abusive (as in your case), or he might have had mistresses all over the place, or 'gone off to find himself', or you might have had an affair etc etc. People are generally uncertain on how to react to divorce, because they don't know the circumstances and therefore don't know if sympathies are warranted, or congratulations- or they might be the sort of person that thinks it's your fault regardless and therefore you deserve no sympathy.

Interestingly: I divorced my first husband. No-one offered me sympathy, because they knew I was glad to be rid of the loser. But when he died, some years later, suddenly I was offered sympathy. Why? I have no clue, other than it's one of the 'expected' reactions when faced with news of a death.

I can see what you're saying - the practical challenges are the same but it's as though the emotional loss doesn't count.

I'm not a single Mum, but I grew up with a widowed mum and we had close friends whose Dad left them and I remember discussing it with my friend when we were about 12 and she was saying that our Dad died, he had no choice, whereas their dad was choosing not to be in their lives and was actually being a father to someone else's children instead. So there's tragedy, loss of control & painful everyone in both scenarios.

Exactly @SpaghettiWithaYeti things haven't changed so much that a widow doesn't rank above a divorcee, who ranks above a single mother.

And (some) people are reacting like I said something OUTRAGEOUS. What was "Jesus christ" and "sick" was not a comment on a thread, but being "less than" excluded, shamed, hearing somebody apologise to a widow for thinking she was a single parent. In fact, a colleague at work also made the same observation to me, how she was reproaching herself for the supposed gaf of assuming a woman was just a single parent when she was in fact a widow. That was only 6 weeks ago.

Its not a competition, but don't pretend it"s "sick" to see what's real. I'm not colluding with patriarchal judgement. /hierarchies for women by ignoring this.

I hear you OP. My friend’s child’s father abandoned her and I stepped in as much as I could in the first few years. I babysat her child overnight so my friend could go out and work or party. I took her on day trips and I spoilt her on her birthday.

The damage done to kids who lose their dads to abandonment is not necessarily less serious than the harm done to kids who have lost their parents to death. Admittedly my friend did make an obvious bad choice in her child’s father though and she’d admit that, but I know some people whose partners did switch on them after marriage /kids.

I’ve also sat for hours with friends who are dealing with the aftermath of their husbands adultery and basically grieving what they thought was a happy marriage.

As a woman I also know many men treat women who have deadbeat fathers with contempt and see them as having “daddy issues “ whereas they’re less likely to do this to women whose dads died young. It’s the idea of it being taboo that your father /partner doesn’t love you, for some reason society subtly blames women for this.

Wow.

I think maybe you haven't read the OP carefully.

This!

I've been both
Got divorced and never saw a penny and raised my son alone
Then after 6 years found such happiness with my second husband and had another child
Then he died
I felt as if my soul had been ripped out of me
I've never experienced pain like it
Apart from my parents I had no help
Thank goodness for my parents and my children who practically saved my life

But my friend had an abusive husband and he left and we both felt a strong connection with each other of certain aspects of both experiences

It's not a game of top trumps

I was never offered any financial help