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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be really, really pleased about the explicit ban on the proactive teaching of gender identity?

291 replies

BiologicsBeforeIdeology · 16/05/2024 13:35

It's just such madness that we even got here. My family has been badly affected by activists pushing this madness on my Autistic son, who now half believes he's a girl because some nitwit came into the school and told him people who feel uncomfortable and like they don't belong are trans (not maybe gay, not maybe Autistic, not maybe just Puberty, but trans)

I won't apologise for wanting to safeguard children. This is not a Section 28 thing, it really is protecting vulnerable kids.

"Gender identity
The guidance will introduce an explicit ban on the proactive teaching of gender identity. It will say that the idea that children can change their gender by using different names, pronouns and wearing the uniform of the opposite sex is highly contested. If pressed by pupils, they should instead focus on the facts of biological sex.
Teaching children about gender identity could lead to them questioning their own gender when they may not have done otherwise, the guidance will suggest. Children can be taught the law about gender reassignment — that people can legally change their gender from the age of 18 — but children will be told that that they cannot legally be classified as members of the opposite sex."

More info on the changes https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/4a2b0d57-13c9-409a-a40b-104d7a0499b2?shareToken=ed46490f36a6c9fbb0f70d6bf03c0a99

What the new sex education guidelines mean for schools and parents

The changes will ban teaching about gender identity and set out what children should be taught at each age

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/4a2b0d57-13c9-409a-a40b-104d7a0499b2?shareToken=ed46490f36a6c9fbb0f70d6bf03c0a99

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scarletbegoniass · 16/05/2024 18:08

Blonkets · 16/05/2024 13:53

I agree but I would like a broader look at teachers and schools peddling ideology to kids. Eg critical race theory. I’d like to know how it happened that schools felt they can do this.

I would also love it if schools were not allowed to use the curriculum for their hobbyhorses, particularly English lit, which often seems to be entirely focused on political or social messages.

What do you mean exactly by social or political messages? The fact is, literary texts are informed by their context, contexts of sex, race, relationships etc included.

It’d be difficult to ignore William Blake’s views on religion and institutions; it’s impossible to discuss The Handmaid’s Tale without conversations around feminism and the rise of the new right in 1980s America. Even more ambiguously, plenty of Shakespeare’s female characters acted somewhat subversively – is discussing that pushing a political message?

How exactly do you propose teaching literary texts without an awareness of their political contexts?

Sleepysendco · 16/05/2024 18:02

My 7 year old says she wants to be a boy because she doesn’t want people thinking she’s cute. She hates pink and loves sport, especially football. I tell her that boys and girls can like whatever they want. The only difference between being a boy or a girl is their “bits” - so unless she wants to use the stinky boys toilets, she could just be a girl that likes football.

other parents I know have said “oh you want to be a boy? Ok, we’ll tell the school you want to be called bob now”.

It scares me what well meaning, loving parents are doing to their children.

IdgieThreadgoodeIsMyHeroine · 16/05/2024 17:55

This is excellent news, but this line from the article really pissed me off:

"Teachers will also be banned from giving children lessons about gender identity — the idea that children can adopt different pronouns, names and uniforms of the opposite sex."

Biological sex should have nothing to do with what uniform a child wears! Girls wearing trousers and boys wearing skirts is freedom of expression, it is NOT gender ideology.

Tosstyhat · 16/05/2024 17:33

Also, as someone raised earlier, it does state no teaching on contraception/STIs until year 9. Unfortunately, at a school I previously worked at, there were several sexually active Year 7s that the safeguarding team were aware of. Some of the new guidance is incredibly out of touch with reality.

The consultation really breaks down which topics are for which ages if anyone is unsure.

Confusionn · 16/05/2024 17:32

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Tosstyhat · 16/05/2024 17:28

I would encourage everyone to have their say in the consultation. It really makes clear how bonkers some of the new changes are. I'm inclined to think that some of it was thought up by people who've never spoken to a child. E.g no teaching on domestic abuse until year 9 because children younger than this are unlikely to understand it. Do they think that 11 year olds are babies?

WallaceinAnderland · 16/05/2024 17:25

If little Jimmy in Year 2 comes into school talking about how he plays GTA with his teenage brother or Sally in Y1 has been watching YouTube clips from Five Nights at Freddie’s, I think the teachers need to be able to discuss this with their class.

Thankfully teachers are not in the habit of terrifying their 5-7 year old pupils.

SingleSexSafeSpace · 16/05/2024 17:17

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fiftyandfat · 16/05/2024 17:16

The link from fairplayforwomen is about changing rooms, but I doubt whether mixed sex toilets in secondary schools are likely to be safer.

SingleSexSafeSpace · 16/05/2024 17:15

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SingleSexSafeSpace · 16/05/2024 17:15

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PrancerandDancer · 16/05/2024 17:10

GrammarTeacher · 16/05/2024 13:45

And the age related limits are going to make so many things a whole lot worse.

I agree, I think this is huge step back.

Not teaching about contraception until year 9 is really concerning.

Just read this guide https://schoolsweek.co.uk/new-sex-education-guidance-proposals-what-schools-need-to-know/

And so many of these "not until this age" are really misjudged. I run a youth group and the infant and juniors are already picking things up from siblings and online.

But hey ho, trans chat will get banned so that's the main thing eh?

Sex education guidance changes: What schools need to know

Age limits on 'sensitive' topics and a ban on teaching about gender identity set out in DfE consultation

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/new-sex-education-guidance-proposals-what-schools-need-to-know

Rainbowshit · 16/05/2024 17:07

Great news. Gender lunacy should not be being taught as fact.

Just a shame it won't apply in Scotland too.

BiologicsBeforeIdeology · 16/05/2024 17:05

WeMeetInFairIthilien · 16/05/2024 17:01

The other issue, relating to GI, is that teacher training and the teaching unions are so decidedly GI, that they publicly have stated (in the press and in communication with their members) that unless the guidance around GI is statutory, they will just ignore it.

Following from the Cass report, I can see that the only way to ensure that schools must comply, is to ban it.

If the schools/unions had been willing to discuss, and plot a reasonable path, rather than demanding that GI is the one true way, I suspect this would have been different.

very good point.

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Leah5678 · 16/05/2024 17:04

I really feel for all the kids who feel for this bs at its 2015-2023 peak. It's too late for so many but thank god it finally happened

WeMeetInFairIthilien · 16/05/2024 17:01

The other issue, relating to GI, is that teacher training and the teaching unions are so decidedly GI, that they publicly have stated (in the press and in communication with their members) that unless the guidance around GI is statutory, they will just ignore it.

Following from the Cass report, I can see that the only way to ensure that schools must comply, is to ban it.

If the schools/unions had been willing to discuss, and plot a reasonable path, rather than demanding that GI is the one true way, I suspect this would have been different.

WeMeetInFairIthilien · 16/05/2024 17:00

Sex ed is rarely taught in England before year 5, and if it is, would only be the scientific names for the organs. There is no change for this, it just formalises this.

Reproduction is usually year 7 Science, and then Sex Ed year 9 PHSE. Mensural cycle, contraception and STIs are then taught again in year 10/11 science.

Alwaystired94 · 16/05/2024 17:00

fiftyandfat · 16/05/2024 16:20

Research that has been done shows that the rate of sexual assaults increases markedly when traditionally single sex spaces are replaced by mixed sex spaces. There are some very good resources on the FWR board on here. I will look for some links when I have some time, but two topics come to mind, one is called "Break it down for me" and I think the other one is called "This never happens", or something similar.
Safe Schools Alliance is a very useful resource specifically for information regarding Gender Ideology in schools in the UK. https://safeschoolsallianceuk.net/

what i can see on their fact sheet is:

A 2017 study from the National Education Union and UK Feminista reports that ‘sexual harassment is highly prevalent in schools, and overwhelmingly involves boys targeting girls’. The study found that ‘over half (58%) of female students in mixed sex schools have experienced or witnessed sexual harassment at school’.

Data collected by Freedom of Information request by The Sunday Times showed that ‘unisex changing rooms are more dangerous for women and girls than single-sex facilities’. ‘almost 90% of reported sexual assaults, harassment and voyeurism…happen in unisex facilities’. It is clear that mixed-sex facilities do not adequately safeguard females from harm.

unisex facilities would also apply to classrooms, corridors and such as well i assume? as they don't state changing room/bathrooms

their solution reads well though
There are solutions which satisfy both the EHRC guidance and the Equality Act exemptions. A school may provide toilet/sink/changing facilities which are single-sex (separate male and female toilets/changing) and also provide a number of self-contained, floor-to-ceiling, lockable toilet and sink facilities which can be used by either sex. This solution achieves the legitimate aim of providing safe, single-sex spaces for female pupils, whilst also not discriminating against transgender pupils by insisting they use the facilities which correspond to their biological sex. Instead, they are able use the self-contained facilities which are open to any pupil of either sex — all of which should contain sanitary waste facilities

WeMeetInFairIthilien · 16/05/2024 16:58

The thing is, much of the age limits given to the different topics actually link up with what is usually taught, and when, in English schools.

We'd normally expect sex ed around year 5-6. The average age of girls starting puberty is 11, and for girls younger than 9, it is really more appropriate to provide any support outside of a whole class setting.

Children under 9 can still be taught about conception, as it can be discussed "in a very factual, scientific way" (quote from Keegan, the Education Secretary). This is currently what usually happens in English schools.

The proposal states that teaching materials that "present contested views as fact - including the view that gender is a spectrum" should be avoid.

This review has been requested by teachers to provide more clarity on age appropriate sex education, as well as removing campaign or lobby group materials from the classroom.

Keegan also stated that "Biological sex is the basis of relationship, sex and health education - not these contested views"

MumblesParty · 16/05/2024 16:44

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Hopefully

BiologicsBeforeIdeology · 16/05/2024 16:41

MrsOvertonsWindow · 16/05/2024 16:34

So pleased to see this. There's some wilful misreading of the guidelines whichbwhen read are much more nuanced than some claim. Removing the flag wavers for queer theory, sex work, kink and fetish is an important move. The lack of central guidance has allowed these groups to self identify as sex experts for children and that's why there's been so many problems with age inappropriate materials.

Sex ed should be child centred, age appropriate with safeguarding running throughout.

Absolutely - it is, username acknowledged - moving the Overton window BACK that is being done here and for the best

OP posts:
MrsOvertonsWindow · 16/05/2024 16:34

So pleased to see this. There's some wilful misreading of the guidelines whichbwhen read are much more nuanced than some claim. Removing the flag wavers for queer theory, sex work, kink and fetish is an important move. The lack of central guidance has allowed these groups to self identify as sex experts for children and that's why there's been so many problems with age inappropriate materials.

Sex ed should be child centred, age appropriate with safeguarding running throughout.

Naunet · 16/05/2024 16:33

LilyBartsHatShop · 16/05/2024 14:59

@SwordToFlamethrower I may be misunderstanding what Taylor is saying but I'm chilled to the bone by the suggestion that the way to help a nine or ten year old girl who is being sexually abused is to provide her with explicit sex ed.

Indeed, as someone who was being abused as a child, sex education didn’t help me in the slightest. She doesn’t have a clue what she’s talking about.