To be really, really pleased about the explicit ban on the proactive teaching of gender identity?

I know. It's wild.

I agree. It should be normalised that rejecting gender norms is fine. Boys can play with dolls and wear dresses, girls can have short hair, wear trousers and play football. What they shouldn't be teaching is boys are actually girls in the wrong body and vice versa.

Of course. Isn't this the most obvious thing in the world? How on earth did society get diverted from this to 'born in the wrong body'?

Agreed.

Yep that’s a good way to do it

Kids do learn that people aren't always the same! It's a huge focus of the primary PSHE curriculum.

Teaching about diversity will not be impacted by no longer teaching about gender identity ideology.

Education does protect children from harm, this is what the evidence shows us.

I agree with this, I think it's good if kids learn we aren't always the same. Would hopefully lead to more understanding and acceptance against people they deem "different" to the so called norm.

To be fair, schools do this through PSHE lessons on gender stereotyping, but it is somewhat undermined by gender identity ideology!

Teaching children to be more accepting of those who don't fit into gender norms is a very good thing, and will still happen through learning about gender stereotyping in PSHE.

Teaching children that anyone who doesn't fit into gender norms is automatically trans (which only serves to validate those gender norms- if they like dresses, they must 'really' be a girl, because boys can't like dresses) and that therefore they must undergo medical intervention to 'fix' their bodies is a very bad thing.

A child asking another child if they are gay or trans is not unkind or unaccepting. They are just curious. Help him to come up with a stock answer he is comfortable with.

This a much better way to approach it

I think this would be like saying, we need to teach all primary aged children about childhood cancers because this will help them identify symptoms and contact their healthcare providers for investiagtion.

Children can no more be held responsible for identifying abuse and seeking interventions from professionals than they can be for identifying serious pathology and seeking healthcare interventions.

I think there's an emotional comfort in clinging to the the idea that "education" has the magical power to stop abuses. They're children, they're vulnerable, if adults can't look after them things are going to go badly for them.

This.

I agree. It should be normalised that rejecting gender norms is fine. Boys can play with dolls and wear dresses, girls can have short hair, wear trousers and play football. What they shouldn't be teaching is boys are actually girls in the wrong body and vice versa.

I may be going against popular opinion but (with the exception of a few kids) education on gender identity isn’t going to make all kids decide to change gender or become confused. Surely its intention is to help them become more understanding and inclusive of others? In fairness I think the approach may be wrong but if the outcome is that kids are more accepting of those who don’t fit into ‘gender norms’ then it can only be a good thing?
my son has struggled with being bullied because of his friend group who are entirely female and is constantly asked by kids if he’s gay or trans which may have been avoided if his classmates had benefited from some education on being kind and accepting.

The way I always explained it to children who asked (I was a Year 6 teacher before my daughter was born) was that some people decide to take hormones and have surgery to appear more like the opposite sex, and that they are known as transgender. I didn't feel it was necessary to go into any more detail than that.

They'll have to explain the law. It's in here:

consult.education.gov.uk/rshe-team/review-of-the-rshe-statutory-guidance/supporting_documents/Draft%20RSE%20and%20Health%20Education%20statutory%20guidance.pdf#page11

They should be honest and say it's impossible to transition to the other sex. They can adopt ways stereotypically associated with the other sex in terms of dress, names etc but transitioning is impossible, no matter what body modifications you do to yourself.

Time to stop lying.

I had a post deleted yesterday for asking a genuine question so I’m asking it again. What will/should be taught in schools about people who have transitioned and living as the opposite sex?

@LilyBartsHatShop anger is an extreme reaction and it strikes me as odd that you can't have a discussion about this without letting your emotions get the better of you.

I've made a few points that you don't agree with and that's fine.

You clearly have more time and energy to invest in writing about this than I do and we're not going to see eye to eye so I will say no more.

And it definitely doesn't help girls going through the start of their periods, which can be a distressing time, to be told they can just identify out of womanhood, and their dislike of having to cope with periods means they're born in the wrong body and are really a boy. As if this is a fact, and not a completely insane idea not at all rooted in reality.

And presumably puberty blockers do stop periods. So to a CHILD this might seem like a great idea - because they won't understand the long term consequences because they're a CHILD and their brain hasn't yet matured.

I actually think this is emotionally abusive, and it has been happening.

I actually had a long discussion about puberty blockers for precocious puberty with my GP once and he said he knew doctors were reluctant to prescribe them unless it was very precocious puberty because of the side effects.

Yes, I was agreeing with you! Sorry if that wasn't clear.

For those girls who got periods early, a lesson with clueless peers, none of whom were going through puberty and see it as a far off thing so might feel free to 'have a laugh' about it would be torment. If it was me I think I'd spend the entire lesson thinking it was ABOUT me and that EVERYONE knew. Torture - not kind to that child.

Once there's enough of them starting the first signs of puberty, lessons about it in a group become an entirely different thing.

And honestly, most children will have an idea from their parents. This idea that there are parents who won't tell their daughter about periods when she's actually bleeding is insane. It's not the Victorian era.

My 7 year old sees my pads, tampons and period pants (hanging up around the house to dry) she knows what it's all about. She actually thinks it's a bit funny at this age, because she thinks it's far off and will never happen to her. Because she's 7.

This sneering at parents as if we're all dimwits and don't have the best interests of our children at heart needs to stop.

If there are neglectful parents, the school / teachers will know about it far before year 5/6 and will have strategies in place to support that child.

I agree for the girls who get their periods early. I think we mean the same thing here!

I've known children of about this age who got their periods, it was bad enough for them without having to sit through a lesson on it with all their peers wondering if they 'knew'. In my experience, teachers do a good job of helping the girls who get their periods early in a 1 on 1, sensitive way which takes into account that particular child's needs.

Did gay rights involve cutting off body parts and sterilising children? How can you not see the homophobia in gender ideology?

Gender ideology is WORSE than section 28. It's literally telling lesbians they need to 'get over' their same sex attraction and have sex with men who feel like women.

And it' not stopping the teaching of gender ideology it's just making it clear that presenting it to developing children as fact (which doesn't have any internal consistency or evidence base) is wrong. You can teach it as a contested belief, which it is. So nothing like section 28 at all. The ones wanting to shut down debate are the genderists, not the realists.

Sorry but I'm not doing this work for you. If you want to bring quotes and show how these demonstrate that the draft guidance breaches safeguarding or that it's not age appropriate, or wrong, then do that and the discussion can be had. I'm not here to do others' research and work for them

@ResisterRex try brook, the sex ed forum or the pshe association.