To be really, really pleased about the explicit ban on the proactive teaching of gender identity?

It's a government desperate for votes pandering to a minority that shout a lot.

It is the minority that shouts a lot, threatens, abuses and demands that was being pandered to the Government, finally, are reversing this to be in line with what the majority want.

It's a government desperate for votes pandering to a minority that shout a lot.

That doesn't make sense. Surely they would want to pander to the majority view in order the garner the most votes?

How do you know what the minority or majority view is on these guidelines?

It's a government desperate for votes pandering to a minority that shout a lot.
Hopefully you will view it the same way if the next government make the decision to allow a different level of teaching?

It's not one parent deciding for another, it's a decision by the government that some sexual themes are not age appropriate.

Including women?

I think general guidelines are one thing but we shouldn't be stipulating to this level of detail what can be taught when.
I don't have strong feelings about trans teaching either way. I know some people do and some of their reasons I understand and can actually support (for example that some women will lose access to health services because they are unable to be seen by a biologically male doctor).

I feel very strongly about ever limiting access to education because someone else doesn't want it for their children, and so my child is disadvantaged as a result.
I have no issue with every parent choosing for themselves whether their child can be taught about trans or sex education, I have an issue with another parent deciding for children that are not theirs.

If you don't like it, stop your child from accessing that area of education, don't stop the education for other children

No, I think this is pretty much the right approach in the new guidelines. You are free to teach your children what you consider appropriate, and other children won't be inappropriately sexualised at an early age. Abuse should be dealt with as a safeguarding concern.

But they're not yours either? So why does your desire for them not to be taught something trump their parental desire for them to continue learning something in school?

You've expressed your opinion, and I've expressed mine. Obviously you think you're right and I'm wrong and I think you are wrong and I'm right that's the nature of disagreement. Thankfully it isn't up to either of us to write guidelines for schools.

Limiting what teachers can talk about at the place where children should be able to talk freely

Another misunderstanding of the draft guidance. And of safeguarding. Children can't "talk freely". Children who say racist things will be reprimanded. Children who talk about watching porn, or violent acts will be assessed for a safeguarding intervention.

Also teachers are actually limited in what they can say anyway. They're not allowed to promote partisan views.

What is it you feel should stay? The gender ideology education or other

If it it gender ideology why do you value it

But they're not yours either? So why does your desire for them not to be taught something trump their parental desire for them to continue learning something in school?
If you don't like it, stop your child from accessing that area of education, don't stop the education for other children

It doesn't trump your opinion, and I didn't say it did? You don't approve of these guidelines and I do. As I said, you can teach your own children, other people's children are not your responsibility.

Parents who follow religion at home will teach it to their children as fact.

Schools teach it as belief.

That's the difference.

Gender identity is a belief so parents are free to teach their belief to their child at home as a fact.

Schools are not obliged to do so.

But that's your opinion. Mine is different. Why does yours trump mine, because you shout louder?
My child will be fine, she'll be appropriately educated in an age sensitive way every step of the way, because I'm her mum and I want what is best for her most in the world. But not everyone has that at home. Limiting what teachers can talk about at the place where children should be able to talk freely is not the answer here.
In the same way that I'm not really bothered about trans identity being taught in schools, I accept other people are. But the answer is not a ban on talking about it for either of us.

And what's more, doing that isn't neutral. It requires other children to prop up the imaginations within a classmate's head. That is unfair, it's adultification, and it's a safeguarding concern. It's helping to lock in an identity that - as we know from Cass and the WPATH leaks - harms the trans-identified child.

Exactly.

Girls can express themselves as a boy, or a superhero, or a tiger. It's up to the adults to recognise that this is exploration through play, not to tell the girl that she is indeed a boy, superhero or tiger.

The percentages mean nothing. Mumsnet is an echo chamber for this. It’s well known to be anti trans. And anyone posting otherwise is slated.

People voting in an anonymous poll aren't being "slated". You are naive if you think this vote doesn't reflect what many people think.

And what's more, doing that isn't neutral. It requires other children to prop up the imaginations within a classmate's head. That is unfair, it's adultification, and it's a safeguarding concern. It's helping to lock in an identity that - as we know from Cass and the WPATH leaks - harms the trans-identified child.

But they aren't a boy, are they?

Except when a child expresses themselves by saying that they want to identify as a boy but they are biologically a girl, right?

As pp said, abuse and sexual activity in young children is a safeguarding concern and IMO in individual children should be dealt with via that framework. We shouldn't think of it as the norm.

It's fair to let parents choose to exclude their child from any sex Ed at school but I don't agree that they get to also exclude the rest of our children from education that we aren't objecting to.

But a lot of parents do object to it being at too young an age. If you want different, you are free to teach your own children about these matters as early as you want to. Sexualising all primary age children is not the answer.

@LilyBartsHatShop there is no guaranteed way. There is only multiple tools, used to teach different children in different ways.
Those tools should not be collateral damage to your war on trans agenda.

That's not at all the point. Teaching children what healthy and consensual sex is (age appropriately) allows them to further identify what is wrong, what is unhealthy, what an adult is doing to them as a ten year old is not how it's meant to be and helps them to build a picture to understand what is potentially happening to them is wrong.
A pre teen being groomed by an adult needs to know that what they are experiencing shouldn't be happening between an adult and a child and teaching them what a healthy experience is is one tool to do so.