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Men still get away with this. Why?

163 replies

Utmilj · 16/05/2024 10:21

Yes I probably sound bitter. Yes I could have chosen a better man to have children with… obviously didn’t think he’d be a deadbeat when we were discussing having a family together. But that accusation about women ‘choosing the right partner’ is a good way to start this post because it’s a very good example of how woman are always to blame and men get away with doing nothing, ignoring their responsibilities.

My situation… met who I thought was a lovely man, decent job, income, stable (or seemed to be). Said all the right things. I was pregnant after a few years and he left me after 7 months. I gave birth alone and funded all our child’s things entirely myself until the cms claim came into effect when ds was 7 months old. It took cms 7 months to chase him for payment. I was lucky, I am from a wealthy family, but why the fuck should women have to wait seven months for payment from a deadbeat? It’s disgusting.

Again I am lucky that he earns well so I have just about enough maintenance for it to be objectively satisfactory and covers nursery costs. For women claiming from men who earn much less, they are pushed into extremely difficult financial situations. Childcare costs all fall on them. Why? Why do we let this happen? It’s appalling. Women are told it’s a ‘lifestyle choice’ to use a nursery if they are a resident parent. No, nursery is a requirement if parents are to work.

And many resident parents are not full resident parents by choice. Lots of men enjoy a fortnightly visit to their child or children. They are quite happy with that. The woman just has to accept it, accept all the responsibility, the financial burden and the time. If they complain, they are such a terrible mother! How can a mother want to complain about doing it all because after all that’s their little baby! But men… men aren’t even faced with that question.

Yes, women could hand their child to social services. They don’t HAVE to parent their child. But again, imagine the outcry. What sort of woman would do that! When many dads have done just that, but they have the insurance policy of the woman who will pick up the slack and protects them from the shame of them personally handing their child over to social care.

Ds’s dad sees him. On his terms. When it suits. When he’s not too busy or he’s had time to relax first. He does what he likes and gets away with it. He focuses of his career. He likes the kudos. All while being a deadbeat.

As I said, I could be bitter (and I probably am a bit) but due to financial protection I have been lucky to not feel the full impact of this behaviour by a man. But this experience has made me realise just how shocking things are for women. Why are they still able to get away with this?

OP posts:
Howbizarre22 · 16/05/2024 18:51

Here here!

And yet there people on MN saying they don’t get why we moan about men on here.

Scallops · 16/05/2024 18:51

I don't think it'll change until men start calling each other out.

Atitudes can change very fast. In my lifetime we've almost done a 180 on drink-driving, and smoking has gone from cool to a bit disgusting.

It could happen if the will was there.

theonlygirl · 16/05/2024 18:50

Runningbird43 · 16/05/2024 18:45

You need to be in a very strong financial position to do this though. You need to be able to rehouse yourself, and you also weaken your likelihood of getting a better share of the house.

for a woman who’s gone PT or is a sahm, she’s not going to be able to walk out, rent or buy a place suitable for kids, and leave him in the family home. And pay maintenance if their ex is RP.

the person staying in the family home has a better chance of a financial split that favours them, as they and the kids will not be made homeless.

women can be very vulnerable without an income. So many happily give up work to do all the parenting, then seem surprised when they split and still get to do all the parenting.

I agree. which I'd why I said I wish more women could do this. I know the reality is they can't. plus they don't just abandon their kids the way men seem to be able to.

CoatRack · 16/05/2024 18:49

Utmilj · 16/05/2024 18:12

@CoatRack a shitty, deplorable choice

Good thing we live in a patriarchy else he wouldn't be made to pay your nursery fees.

Runningbird43 · 16/05/2024 18:48

Yetmorebeanstocount · 16/05/2024 18:39

This is the fault of extreme capitalism and a totally dysfunctional housing market.

If an man on minimum wage could afford to pay a mortgage for his ex-wife and also pay for a second mortgage for himself, then society wouldn't be in the state of collapsing birth rates and worry about population decline.

Why should a man need to be able to afford a mortgage for his ex wife and himself?

she should be able to afford her own mortgage. Women are allowed to own their own homes now.

Runningbird43 · 16/05/2024 18:45

theonlygirl · 16/05/2024 18:23

God I fucking love your sister If only more women felt able to do this or were in a position to at the outset. The assumption from some men that they leave and just pop in when it suits them disgusts me.

You need to be in a very strong financial position to do this though. You need to be able to rehouse yourself, and you also weaken your likelihood of getting a better share of the house.

for a woman who’s gone PT or is a sahm, she’s not going to be able to walk out, rent or buy a place suitable for kids, and leave him in the family home. And pay maintenance if their ex is RP.

the person staying in the family home has a better chance of a financial split that favours them, as they and the kids will not be made homeless.

women can be very vulnerable without an income. So many happily give up work to do all the parenting, then seem surprised when they split and still get to do all the parenting.

Utmilj · 16/05/2024 18:42

Yetmorebeanstocount · 16/05/2024 18:39

This is the fault of extreme capitalism and a totally dysfunctional housing market.

If an man on minimum wage could afford to pay a mortgage for his ex-wife and also pay for a second mortgage for himself, then society wouldn't be in the state of collapsing birth rates and worry about population decline.

@Yetmorebeanstocount

blaming capitalism for deadbeat dads… I think I’ve really heard it all now 😂

OP posts:
Yetmorebeanstocount · 16/05/2024 18:39

PalomaJaneintheDales · 16/05/2024 17:37

I work as a supervisor in a facility of over 250 men under 40. I know them all well (and like almost all of them) and they often want to chat on their shift break. None of them wants to get married or have children for the reasons you state.

This is the fault of extreme capitalism and a totally dysfunctional housing market.

If an man on minimum wage could afford to pay a mortgage for his ex-wife and also pay for a second mortgage for himself, then society wouldn't be in the state of collapsing birth rates and worry about population decline.

Yetmorebeanstocount · 16/05/2024 18:36

It is a mistake to encourage young women to think in terms "equality" when it comes to being parents. The young women then have false expectations of what men will do.
By all means, women should have equality in law, in finance, in education, in the workplace, etc. but when it comes to parenthood the mother is the one who does most (or does it all).
I don't think it is possible to change the nature of men in this respect. Yes some love parenting and do it well, but most don't.
Far better to warn young women: don't have a baby unless you are fully prepared to be a single mother, or end up effectively a single mother but with a non-parenting man who lives with you.

Scallops · 16/05/2024 18:28

I suggested to xh that we each lived with the dc for 6 months of the year - the look on his face!

Then he had the decency to start feeling guilty. Didn't stop him buggering off though.

theonlygirl · 16/05/2024 18:23

vidflex · 16/05/2024 11:20

It's appalling! If women just walked away after a relationship broke down and left her kids with the dad, and popped by once a week to take them for a McDonald's can you imagine how people would view her!.

My sister was with her dh for 15 years when he suddenly became distant and checked out. He finally told her the old line "I love you but I'm not in love with you" he wanted to end things as he needed space to think things through.

My sister packed a bag and left him right there on the spot. Came to stay with me. She had explained to her boys what was happening and she would pick them up Friday night and bring them back on Sunday.

Her husband was livid. How dare she abandon her kids. She quickly pointed out that's exactly what he was about to do. The very least she now expected was 50/50 custody as soon as she found suitable accommodation.

He tried to win her back when he realised he wasnt walking off into the sunset a free man but he'd been cheating and it was over. We helped her get a new place sorted and she's had the boys 50/50 for a few years but they are mid teens now and mostly want to stay with her.

God I fucking love your sister If only more women felt able to do this or were in a position to at the outset. The assumption from some men that they leave and just pop in when it suits them disgusts me.

Utmilj · 16/05/2024 18:12

CoatRack · 16/05/2024 17:19

His body his choice?

@CoatRack a shitty, deplorable choice

OP posts:
PalomaJaneintheDales · 16/05/2024 17:37

LakeTiticaca · 16/05/2024 16:27

How do you know the mother didn't end the relationship? I knew a girl who got pregnant in her late teens. Father was the same age. He asked her to marry him, worked hard to pull together a deposit to buy a house. They married and had 2 children. After a few years she decided she didn't love him anymore, kicked him out of the house he worked hard to pay for, and installed a new boyfriend. This poor young man was still having to pay for everything while she was enjoying her new life in his home. Her parents were absolutely furious about her behaviour and refused to speak to her for years.

So while we rightly criticise some men who choose to leave their family, its not always by choice, some women can be just as bad

I work as a supervisor in a facility of over 250 men under 40. I know them all well (and like almost all of them) and they often want to chat on their shift break. None of them wants to get married or have children for the reasons you state.

Specialneedsnana · 16/05/2024 17:26

Well Said @Utmilj I totally agree. My ex sees his kids fortnightly and lives with his mum. Everything is done for him. He just does the fun bits . Walks about like dad of the century.

CoatRack · 16/05/2024 17:19

His body his choice?

0w1 · 16/05/2024 17:17

I know nobody wants to choose an arsehole but the ":choice" is so often unconscious.

My parents weren't bad people but I wasn't raised to advocate for myself. I was shamed for having a visibly distressed reaction to selfish/insensitive behaviour, so after decades of detaching from predictable normal reactions to a lack of empathy, I doubted myself when my (now) x gaslighted me into having no reaction to his selfishness and blaming.

I'm ok now. My kids are OK. But it's not like I ever had a line up good suitors and I chose the bad one.

Humans live in a meritocracy now and we need success, status and money but we are also animals. Eating sleeping fucking rinse repat rinse repeat.

Insight comes later in life so often. Light bulb moments come after baby. Women have added pressures that men don't.

Obviously I'm not saying oh go ahead have children with a hopeless man/abusive controlling man, but I'm not shocked it keeps happening.

All I could do was to regularly ask my daughter as she grew up, questions like, do you feel supported will you regret it if you don't go , questions that remind her to tune back into what suits her, how she feels.

My mother never did that, so I set out to be pleasing, to be no trouble, to bend with the wind, to have no reaction to being hurt.

We should be encouraging women to suit themselves. Walk away quicker. Formulate a life plan. Map backwatds.
Have therapy, like an MOT before having a child

gocompare · 16/05/2024 17:14

More isn't done because it's men that are affected if anything is done and it's men that make the rules still. Patriarchy.

It is disgusting.

It used to be a stigma to be a single mum but there was never, and still not enough shaming of these men who just skip off. It's just accepted.

We need passports revoking, driving licences revoking, companies refusing to employ non payers, jail time etc. we need something because at the moment all we have is the CMS which is complete shite.

All they do is send letters. I managed to get the CMS and my ex to court and the CMS sat there and defended my non paying ex.

We had to apply the CMS amount from the court hearing guidance and the CMS were sat there saying well we don't believe he earns more than £40k. I had to show the court he'd taken that in just a dividend. Useless fuckers.

Thispinks · 16/05/2024 17:14

I know this is not all men who’ve left their family - but a Lot don’t seem to give a fck about seeing their children.

Comtesse · 16/05/2024 17:11

Look @DustyFire just linked to the evidence on this - 85% of single parent families are headed up by women…..,

AVFC4eva · 16/05/2024 17:11

My cousin has just got together with a bloke who has 4 kids by 3 different women. Massive red flag but she won't listen. She has two kids with her ex. What does she see in a man who has merrily sprinkled his oats around the town?! And does nothing for his kids. I just pray she keeps her legs shut.

Scallops · 16/05/2024 17:04

Given the reality, I think we ought to be warning young people that there's a risk when you have a baby that either you could end up being 100% responsible for it, or that you might not be able to live with it for up to 50% of the time - and not have any say over what happens to it the other 50%.

And only go ahead if you could cope with either of those.

Utmilj · 16/05/2024 17:00

Riversideandrelax · 16/05/2024 16:25

No, you can't just hand your DC over to Social services. It doesn't work like that.

@Riversideandrelax well, you can if you refuse to care for them. But your view backs up what I’m saying even more.

OP posts:
Utmilj · 16/05/2024 16:59

Runningbird43 · 16/05/2024 16:16

It’s the way society is set up.

to be completely honest, I don’t think I’d want to change it. Yes it’s shitty when men don’t step up, but would I really not want to be female and the default parent?

how many of us hand on heart would prefer to be the full time worker while dh went pt or sahd? How many of us willingly take on that role?

personally I’d rather be the one holding the baby. The idea of them living elsewhere 50% of the time does not appeal to me. As it stands in divorce women will always be RP unless there is neglect or abuse, so no need to be in court deciding who wants to be RP. If men did start giving up work to be a sahP, would we be happy for them to automatically get main carer status and only see our kids eow?

I know my brothers divorce nearly killed him. He didn’t want to be a part time dad. He saw them as much as possible, but knew it was very much on her say so and she could stop access at any time. He saw them a lot, but only when she chose to allow him.

@Runningbird43 i don’t want to not see my child. I just want the workload to be shared. 50/50. Like it was when we procreated.

OP posts:
SanFranBear · 16/05/2024 16:55

For those saying 'women are just as bad'... in the same kind of volumes?? Yes, there is plenty of anecdata as everyone knows one man in this position, maybe two.. But how many women do you also know, going it alone with fuck all input, monetarily or otherwise, from a feckless ex-partner! Far far too many.

Women are not just as bad - we live in a patriarchy which massively serves men to live their lives without any scorn or shame should they walk away from their children! It is the polar opposite for women - even those who agree to the standard contact that's acceptable for men (a night in the week, every other weekend). They are viewed very very differently and certainly not as a 'good mum!'

I am sick of the 'what about the menz' talk which always comes up on any thread where women talk about how society is failing them. Just stop it!

whynotwhatknot · 16/05/2024 16:52

i actually just spoke to someone 6 months pregnant who said well their life doesnt change does it its all on us as mothers

i said well its 2024 it shoulnt be like that

this someone with her own business just accepting her partner wont do anything!