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Men still get away with this. Why?

163 replies

Utmilj · 16/05/2024 10:21

Yes I probably sound bitter. Yes I could have chosen a better man to have children with… obviously didn’t think he’d be a deadbeat when we were discussing having a family together. But that accusation about women ‘choosing the right partner’ is a good way to start this post because it’s a very good example of how woman are always to blame and men get away with doing nothing, ignoring their responsibilities.

My situation… met who I thought was a lovely man, decent job, income, stable (or seemed to be). Said all the right things. I was pregnant after a few years and he left me after 7 months. I gave birth alone and funded all our child’s things entirely myself until the cms claim came into effect when ds was 7 months old. It took cms 7 months to chase him for payment. I was lucky, I am from a wealthy family, but why the fuck should women have to wait seven months for payment from a deadbeat? It’s disgusting.

Again I am lucky that he earns well so I have just about enough maintenance for it to be objectively satisfactory and covers nursery costs. For women claiming from men who earn much less, they are pushed into extremely difficult financial situations. Childcare costs all fall on them. Why? Why do we let this happen? It’s appalling. Women are told it’s a ‘lifestyle choice’ to use a nursery if they are a resident parent. No, nursery is a requirement if parents are to work.

And many resident parents are not full resident parents by choice. Lots of men enjoy a fortnightly visit to their child or children. They are quite happy with that. The woman just has to accept it, accept all the responsibility, the financial burden and the time. If they complain, they are such a terrible mother! How can a mother want to complain about doing it all because after all that’s their little baby! But men… men aren’t even faced with that question.

Yes, women could hand their child to social services. They don’t HAVE to parent their child. But again, imagine the outcry. What sort of woman would do that! When many dads have done just that, but they have the insurance policy of the woman who will pick up the slack and protects them from the shame of them personally handing their child over to social care.

Ds’s dad sees him. On his terms. When it suits. When he’s not too busy or he’s had time to relax first. He does what he likes and gets away with it. He focuses of his career. He likes the kudos. All while being a deadbeat.

As I said, I could be bitter (and I probably am a bit) but due to financial protection I have been lucky to not feel the full impact of this behaviour by a man. But this experience has made me realise just how shocking things are for women. Why are they still able to get away with this?

OP posts:
Willyoujustbequiet · 18/05/2024 14:37

BigFatLiar · 16/05/2024 13:49

Women can be just as bad as men. You are however on mumsnet so you tend to get one side of the story.

It's the side of the story that reflects the true picture. 90% of lone parents are women and the huge amount owed in missing child support is owed by men (Gingerbread and ONS)

There is the stereotype of a deadbeat dad for a reason.

BigFatLiar · 18/05/2024 13:59

kkloo · 18/05/2024 13:37

I think they're safe enough anyway, I can't imagine any women wanting to go near them or to procreate with them 😂 They sound like a very odd bunch!!

Why should they be odd. There are several of my daughters friendship groups both male and female who've decided to stay single no kids.

5128gap · 18/05/2024 13:58

BigFatLiar · 16/05/2024 13:49

Women can be just as bad as men. You are however on mumsnet so you tend to get one side of the story.

Such a stupid remark. The reason we hear this side of the story on MN and pretty much everywhere else, and very rarely the reverse, is because one is a significant problem worthy of discussion, the other is something that effects a tiny minority of men very occasionally. If you have stats to show the number of households headed by single fathers struggling to claim child support from mothers is a comparable problem to the one this thread is about, then I'm sure we would discuss that too.

kkloo · 18/05/2024 13:37

SchoolQuestionnaire · 18/05/2024 13:31

Yes and I’m assuming they are all being super careful and always using protection, or even better abstaining completely from sexual contact to ensure that they don’t become a parent. After all, you can’t trust those conniving women, always putting themselves into vulnerable situations to get those huge CSA payments that we all keep hearing about.🙄

I think they're safe enough anyway, I can't imagine any women wanting to go near them or to procreate with them 😂 They sound like a very odd bunch!!

JammyJellyfish · 18/05/2024 13:34

It often isn't about money - more about cannot be bothered. John Lennon abandoned his first wife and son Julien with barely any money so he could move on with Yoko. His ex wife struggled for years and could barely get by.

Men are just crap at times - everything has to work out on their terms or they are not interested.

SchoolQuestionnaire · 18/05/2024 13:31

kkloo · 16/05/2024 20:53

You work with over 250 men under 40 and none of them want children because they think a woman is going to screw them over? 🤔

Yes and I’m assuming they are all being super careful and always using protection, or even better abstaining completely from sexual contact to ensure that they don’t become a parent. After all, you can’t trust those conniving women, always putting themselves into vulnerable situations to get those huge CSA payments that we all keep hearing about.🙄

SchoolQuestionnaire · 18/05/2024 13:24

CoatRack · 16/05/2024 18:49

Good thing we live in a patriarchy else he wouldn't be made to pay your nursery fees.

If it’s his child they are his nursery fees too. Unless of course he’s offering to give up work to care for his child. And I think the point is that he categorically isn’t. CSA is ridiculously low and in most cases doesn’t even cover the basics. I know very few men whose payments (always made begrudgingly) would actually cover nursery fees and these are not low earners. Frankly i’d be embarrassed to complain about contributing to the care of my own child. It says a lot about society that these disgusting specimens feel free to own up to this disgusting behaviour. As my dear departed mother used to say, only the lowest of the low rejects their own flesh and blood.

SanFranBear · 18/05/2024 12:59

Deathbyfluffy · 16/05/2024 21:17

I have a friend in a similar situation - and before the usual suspects tell me how convenient that is, I’ve spoken about it on here before today a good few times.

It’s not just men who abandon kids, and I’m not going to let it be portrayed that way given how much effort I see a good friend go to in terms of looking after his kids while his ex gets drunk and shags about.

You're right.. your one example completely negates the actions of the many, many shitty men out there, well done!

I also know two men doing the same, one of whom is my bf! That doesn't blind me to the fact that society is set up to support men to walk away and women to get blasted by doing the same (just re-read your final sentence!)

shearwater2 · 17/05/2024 12:15

Runningbird43 · 17/05/2024 10:58

If you’re going to make it a crime not to pay for your own children how would that apply?

firstly you’ve got redundancy, job loss, disability, what happens then?

secondly presumably it won’t only apply to men. So if a woman refuses to work or won’t work full time, particularly once the kids are in school, do we also say she is guilty of not paying for her own kids?

if a woman is on benefits, or can’t find a job, will she be guilty of the same as the nrp?

it can’t really be argued that women can’t get jobs with kids, because many can, and do. Sen etc excepted obviously.

it’s a massive can of worms which knowing bureaucracy will end up with many people finding themselves arrested while others manage to evade.

A lot of people try and evade taxes.

Do you think HMRC go "Oh well" and just leave it? No, they do a full tax investigation and prosecute people.

Child support agency should have the same powers and capability of investigation.

DustyFire · 17/05/2024 11:16

I have lost my job. I still have to pay for my kids. If my exH lost his, he’d be let off paying the £37.50 a week he currently pays me.

Runningbird43 · 17/05/2024 10:58

coxesorangepippin · 16/05/2024 21:15

It should be a crime not to pay for your children, not to support them in non/financial ways, or to not see them.

^

It is a crime in the US. You can't even buy a donut if you haven't paid your alimony

If you’re going to make it a crime not to pay for your own children how would that apply?

firstly you’ve got redundancy, job loss, disability, what happens then?

secondly presumably it won’t only apply to men. So if a woman refuses to work or won’t work full time, particularly once the kids are in school, do we also say she is guilty of not paying for her own kids?

if a woman is on benefits, or can’t find a job, will she be guilty of the same as the nrp?

it can’t really be argued that women can’t get jobs with kids, because many can, and do. Sen etc excepted obviously.

it’s a massive can of worms which knowing bureaucracy will end up with many people finding themselves arrested while others manage to evade.

BigFatLiar · 17/05/2024 10:43

BibbleandSqwauk · 17/05/2024 07:47

The two are not comparable. A woman choosing an abortion does not leave behind a person that requires support. They simply remove the "problem". Men get to choose control over their own sperm. There are vanishingly few genuine "tricked" into it where a woman sabotaged the condom and a man who simply takes a woman's word she is on the pill or whatever is foolish. A man who had unprotected sex is aware it could result in fatherhood and, just as a woman knows, protected sex could also end in pregnancy. He also knows he has NO SAY in whether that pregnancy will result in a child.
Women are bashed on here all the time for not choosing a better father for their kids. Let's also save some vitriol then for men who choose to assume someone else will deal with his carelessness or misfortune. And yes, vasectomies and abstinence are absolutely viable options.

The message being that men should not trust women either.
No sex until after marriage and possibly only then when both want to have a child. Great.

BirdsRoundandRound · 17/05/2024 08:44

For those talking about the women they know - yes it happens (my mum left us all when I was 15 so I know and understand both the specific trauma and the vilification of the woman around this). But the reason you are citing these examples is exactly BECAUSE it's so rare - these examples stand out and the woman is seen as awful, shocking, uncaring etc etc etc

For every one of you mentioning a woman doing this, I bet you easily know 15 men but they don't even occur to you because it's so normalised. And the woman you know sticks out because it's seen as SO MUCH WORSE

My mum leaving fucked me up for a long time. But we have a very close relationship now (much closer than with my dad who still managed to leave us kids for a new woman, in spirit and body at least - barely there but paying for us). I understand the reasons my mum did it - I don't agree and would never do it - but many of the reasons above regarding patriarchy was exactly why it got to breaking point for her.

No matter how many anecdotal stories you provide of women doing this - on a societal level it's men who are the issue. (Oh and I also bet the men in those situation are sympathised with and supported above and beyond the same situation reversed!)

Golden407 · 17/05/2024 08:04

BibbleandSqwauk · 17/05/2024 07:11

Because men frequently don't seek help or have strong support networks; because men commit far more violent crime than women; because women make up 85% of single parent households so custodial sentences are more problematic; women do fight in wars and in countries that don't, or in the past, it was precisely because men were seen as superior that they got the "honour" of fighting. If it was a punishment you can guarantee they'd make women do it. There you go 🙂

I don't know what you're trying to prove to me? Yes there are reasons these things happen but it still shows that the system doesn't favour men in every aspect of life

Standingupstandingout · 17/05/2024 07:53

BibbleandSqwauk · 17/05/2024 07:47

The two are not comparable. A woman choosing an abortion does not leave behind a person that requires support. They simply remove the "problem". Men get to choose control over their own sperm. There are vanishingly few genuine "tricked" into it where a woman sabotaged the condom and a man who simply takes a woman's word she is on the pill or whatever is foolish. A man who had unprotected sex is aware it could result in fatherhood and, just as a woman knows, protected sex could also end in pregnancy. He also knows he has NO SAY in whether that pregnancy will result in a child.
Women are bashed on here all the time for not choosing a better father for their kids. Let's also save some vitriol then for men who choose to assume someone else will deal with his carelessness or misfortune. And yes, vasectomies and abstinence are absolutely viable options.

I'm not saying they are comparable choices and I'm definitely not talking about sabotage. I'm just saying it could be argued that a woman also has a choice but just at a different stage.
For what it's worth I think men are awful if they walk away from their kids. Kids deserve both parents to love them even if the parents aren't together.

BibbleandSqwauk · 17/05/2024 07:47

Standingupstandingout · 17/05/2024 07:24

Trigger warning - this comment discusses abortion.

I haven't had time to read the full thread so apologies if this has already been said.
I 100% agree that women do the lion share of anything 'children' related and it shouldn't be that way. It really shouldn't in this day and age.

However, to play devil's advocate. A woman's choice to not be a parent would happen when choosing to go ahead with the pregnancy or not so they do get a choice to walk away, it's just at a different time and in a different way. A man tends not to get that choice. Yes, they could both choose to abstein or use protection but sometimes things happen and sometimes protection fails.

The two are not comparable. A woman choosing an abortion does not leave behind a person that requires support. They simply remove the "problem". Men get to choose control over their own sperm. There are vanishingly few genuine "tricked" into it where a woman sabotaged the condom and a man who simply takes a woman's word she is on the pill or whatever is foolish. A man who had unprotected sex is aware it could result in fatherhood and, just as a woman knows, protected sex could also end in pregnancy. He also knows he has NO SAY in whether that pregnancy will result in a child.
Women are bashed on here all the time for not choosing a better father for their kids. Let's also save some vitriol then for men who choose to assume someone else will deal with his carelessness or misfortune. And yes, vasectomies and abstinence are absolutely viable options.

SallyWD · 17/05/2024 07:28

I do know two women who have walked out on their children but yes, it's usually the men. I think generally speaking women want to stay with their children and find it much, much harder to walk away. That's the difference. Also, often the women don't want to stay with the men once they've proved they're useless so the men leaving is sometimes a mutual decision!
I agree men have it much easier in this respect.

Standingupstandingout · 17/05/2024 07:24

Trigger warning - this comment discusses abortion.

I haven't had time to read the full thread so apologies if this has already been said.
I 100% agree that women do the lion share of anything 'children' related and it shouldn't be that way. It really shouldn't in this day and age.

However, to play devil's advocate. A woman's choice to not be a parent would happen when choosing to go ahead with the pregnancy or not so they do get a choice to walk away, it's just at a different time and in a different way. A man tends not to get that choice. Yes, they could both choose to abstein or use protection but sometimes things happen and sometimes protection fails.

BibbleandSqwauk · 17/05/2024 07:11

Golden407 · 17/05/2024 06:25

If that's true why are 98% of homeless people men? Why are the majority of people in Prison men? Why are men more likely than women to be imprisoned for the same offence? Why are only men conscripted to fight in wars?

Because men frequently don't seek help or have strong support networks; because men commit far more violent crime than women; because women make up 85% of single parent households so custodial sentences are more problematic; women do fight in wars and in countries that don't, or in the past, it was precisely because men were seen as superior that they got the "honour" of fighting. If it was a punishment you can guarantee they'd make women do it. There you go 🙂

BibbleandSqwauk · 17/05/2024 07:06

theonlygirl · 16/05/2024 18:23

God I fucking love your sister If only more women felt able to do this or were in a position to at the outset. The assumption from some men that they leave and just pop in when it suits them disgusts me.

I absolutely wish I'd done that too. My ex left for ow and moved 100 miles away. Still have the nerve to argue he'd left me, not the children (obviously he was invisibly doing the school runs and overnight wake ups and everything else) 🙄. I was too stunned when it all happened to do anything but I absolutely wish I'd said, fuck that, I'll move out to a little flat with a sofa bed for them and you can stay in the house and do 26/30 days a month.
He would argue up and down that it was not about being with the ow and he was "sacrificing" being with the kids so as not to be with me as I was so awful (we were married less than two years prior to this having been together a decade) but ran a mile from the day to day once he had the chance. He does see them, but no day to day involvement and it's just different. If my kids need something or want to do a hobby I stretch to manage it. He'd just say no. He doesn't see the day to day impact that would have, it's like their abstract concepts, not actually people and as they're now teens with very definite preferences etc it's getting harder because they don't just fit into the convenient box he wants them in.

shearwater2 · 17/05/2024 06:42

The patriarchy damages some men as much as it helps others. Class/money driven patriarchy would be more accurate.

Golden407 · 17/05/2024 06:25

Atethehalloweenchocs · 16/05/2024 16:07

Its the patriarchy. Every system and everything we do favours men and male priorities.

If that's true why are 98% of homeless people men? Why are the majority of people in Prison men? Why are men more likely than women to be imprisoned for the same offence? Why are only men conscripted to fight in wars?

RobinM · 17/05/2024 01:24

Suri daughter of Katie holmes and Tom cruise has apparently changed her surname from cruise now she is 18 as he has nothing to do with her. He chose Scientology over his child and hasn’t seen her since his marriage to Katie ended. There are lots of comments across social media defending Tom and vilifying Katie, suri, all women and the courts.

I wonder if it would’ve been toms fault if it were Katie who made the choice never to see her daughter again 🤔

badatdecisions · 16/05/2024 21:56

I'd still rather be a woman, I'd hate to be a man always thinking I may have knocked someone up and not even know I had a kid out there.

I think the main reason is that most people choose their other half based on attractiveness at the time and not how well they work together as a team or how good parent material they are. Liking the same band at 17 and having a cool haircut is not the basis for choosing a lifetime partner. I know so many couples who have next to nothing in common now - just the kids. They don't have the same interests at all, they don't complete each other, they maybe watch a couple of the same TV shows together sometimes and that's it. Then they wonder why they don't get on and find everything difficult.

Ws2210 · 16/05/2024 21:28

The dwp needs to do more to get men to pay CMS. Instead they go after people on PIP