to not have realised how abusive and horrible men were until I joined MN

But the data doesn't show there to be more abusive men than women. It's right there in this thread.

In your opinion.

Depends if you think DV is vile. If so, we're on a level with men.

And I'll decide which thread is for me to post on, thanks.

There are more heterosexual couples than lesbian and gay couples.

And as there are more abusive men than women, then the numbers of abusive men exceeds the number of abusive women.

Also due to physical differences the nature of the abuse differs.

It's almost like they need backed up by dozens of studies. 🤣🤣🤣

You are on the wrong thread mate.

There are more men than women who are vile regardless of who they fancy and what sex of the person they decide to be in a relationship with.

But your sentences make no ... sense.

They are so vague as to be meaningless.

No, lesbians commit more DV than gay men. It's lesbians first, then hetero, then gay men.

Your evidence for this 'bubble' is

It's a fair point.

In the main, women will post about destructive, problematic relationships. Not happy, enriching ones.

That's the 'bubble' that might be referred to. If you took the Relationships board as an indicator, you might believe that most men are selfish, abusive, incapable ... that's not true, and IRL, I know many great men in happy marriages. But posters don't need help with those ones!

And they do it to men they are in relationships with as well.

Women can be vile including if they are in a relationship with another woman but the numbers of men always exceeds this.

But I was right that people on here will always ignore any data that contradicts their narrative. The studies I've posted have done the rounds on here a good few times and they always get ignored.

But that doesn't matter because the people that refuse to acknowledge them don't care about the truth. They've already chosen the reality they want to accept. What matters is that people who are on the fence can read the studies and make an informed decision rather than taking the usual narrative at face value in the absence of any solid data.

Yeah, right, of course there is symmetry in men and women's experience of domestic violence.

What kind of pondlife hangs around womens forums disputing lived experience of male violence?

Great post 👏

I wasn't on MN when I was in the throes of my abusive marriage, or the immediate aftermath. I wish I had been.

It took my excellent counsellor many years of working with me to help me see how awfully destructively abusive my ex was.

I'm 10 years separated, recently divorced, a long agonising battle that he used (and the Irish courts enable) to perpetuate his abuse.

I can finally see chinks of light - far from perfect but I've finally some legal protection and some of the means to abuse me are gone.

What I noticed most on MN in my early days here were the robust posts calling out shitty unacceptable behaviour by men to their partners. Not necessarily abuse. But clear, straight-talking advice on what it means to be valued or respected.

Despite believing I was, and appearing to be, capable, confident & articulate, I had never truly believed I was entitled to that type of decent treatment.

There's underlying reasons why some women are susceptible to the effects of abusive men, but any woman can find herself in the situation.

Sorry. I know I shouldn't.

I just don't like unfounded bigotry/sexism. And it is unfounded when the majority of data contradicts it. I used to believe all the stuff people say until I started reading the studies.

Men are mainly violent against other men, and they kill much more women than we do men (which is still very few in relation to the size of the population).

However, with day to day common domestic violence the vast majority of data suggests we're just as bad.

Your evidence for this 'bubble' is?

Recent studies have found that more women admit to assaulting their partner than men admit to having been assaulted. Men clearly don't like to admit to being victims.

Delusional. 🙄

The vast majority of violent and sexual crime is perpetrated by men. And that’s just the ones that get caught.

me too! 😂

It's a shame that some posters are "last word freaks". Because if they weren't so determined to get the last word in with the derailers then we could stay on track with the real issues here which the OP mentioned and are totally valid.

I'd agree with a figure of 50% too.

But they usually go by crime data which only includes officially reported cases. It's acknowledged by all the biggest DV charities, especially Mankind, that men under report due to feeling 'weak' for having been abused by a woman.

The worlds biggest meta study on DV (covering 1700 peer reviewed studies) tells a different story, as does the 32 nation dating violence study, and the other Iinked with 500,000 respondents - plus many others.

Saying that men don't suffer much abuse because it's not reported is like saying hardly any women are raped because few men are convicted.

Tbf I was enjoying watching the increasingly foot stompy posts of a man being ignored by women

You might get a better reception if you gave it its own thread. Because if you believe that women pose a grave danger to men, and you are fearful for your wellbeing and life at our hands, then you might want to consider mounting a campaign.
March for safer streets for yourselves.Set up buddying schemes to walk in twos at night in case we attack you.
Create a database of men only trades people so you don't have to fear we might sexually harass you in your homes.
Teach your 13 year old sons how to walk swiftly past and not make eye contact when we cat call them from our vans on their way to school.
Consider self defence classes so when we physically restrain you, hold you down, use our height and strength advantage to subdue you you may be able to escape us.
What you probably shouldn't bother doing is telling us about how much suffering injury and deaths we inflict on men. Because you'll probably find we just say NAWALT.

The latest Office for National Statistics figures (2022/23) show that one in three victims of domestic abuse are male equating to 751,000 men (3.2%) and 1.38 million women (5.7%). From this, 483,000 men and 964,000 women are victims of partner abuse. (ONS 2022/23).

I agree op that MN has been a sad education. Something I have found heartbreakingly sad is the psychological defences that victims subconsciously erect to protect themselves from the horror they’re living in.

Over and over, I’ve read a version of a woman posting about something quite minor that on the surface seems almost ridiculous to be upset by, until someone asks a question that peels back a layer and slowly the sordid mess gets laid bare and you can tell that she hasn’t been able to see full extent of it before.

That slow erosion of self worth is terrifying, and some of the fiercest advocates on the relationships board recognise it because they lived it. But reading the transformation on some of the long running threads, when posters form a circle of truth, strength and support and help a woman find her way out of danger and back to her own strength and self is beyond amazing. MN is a phenomenal community in certain corners.

This is why I often can't take these threads seriously....

Mumsnet posters: "Men commit so much violence against women."

Rational person: "Well, actually the bulk of data doesn't suggest this".

Mumsnet posters: "Whataboutery!".

🤣🤣🤣🤣

I in 4 women will experience domestic abuse in their lifetime. 3 women a week are being killed still by abusive partners.

When Womens Aid started 50 years in 1974, it was 2 women a week. It went up to 4 a week in lockdoen and now averages at about 3 a week.

I'm a survivor of hence