Single sex schools - PT2

If the issues are to be solved, or even minimised, then it's completely relevant to consider what is causing it. You cannot actually think it's ok to write off a whole host of complex issues as 'boys exploring themselves'.

Some girls also bully other girls to the extent that they actually self harm or even commit suicide, and while that's undoubtedly a much smaller number than the male violence, we cannot say it's irrelevant to look for the causes behind that either.

I think who is to blame is irrelevant. It’s a fact, and girls shouldn’t be put through a social experiment at the cost of their education to find out why. If boys and their parents want to go away and solve this issue we can talk again. But in the meantime let’s not make our girls pay the price of boys ‘exploring themselves’.

@FaeryRing There is lots of info out there to back up that physical acts of violence are more often perpetrated by males, against females and against other males. I doubt anyone would disagree with that. This opens up the massive question of just who is to blame for this trend? Society? Parents? Education system? Government? Lack of support? Abuse? I know the perpetrators themselves choose to pick up a knife or use their firsts in the first place, but what leads them to make that choice? More questions than answers really.

And just to avoid confusion here, I am not trying to minimise the harm these males are doing, I am asking what makes them think this is ok?

There definitely are cases of female on female and female on male violence, but it is definitely seemingly more rare.

Because I’m aware of a considerable handful of cases of severe violence at school in the last couple of years but all have been perpetrated by boys. I’m also aware of severe violence taking place outside of school between pupils, again all perpetrated by boys against other boys or girls.

How many female students have stabbed their fellow classmates or teachers, versus male?

Christ. I can’t do this thread! I’ll make like an airport lounge attendee and leave now.

I think we shouldn't ignore international studies, but we definitely should read them taking into the the actual differences of the different education systems.
Even within the UK the Scottish and English systems differ - for example my school had 'Grammar' in the title, but it was simply a historical name and not a Grammar like the majority of English Grammar schools are. People might assume my school had a typical more selective English Grammar intake when in reality it was more like a typical Comprehensive School intake. Scottish secondary schools are Grammar, Academy, High/High School, etc.

There’s nothing to suggest demand is falling, just that schools are now under tighter financial pressure and therefore fewer parents can afford private education (which single sex schools usually are), so doubling the market by admitting the other sex makes financial sense. Equally state schools are more limited in funding so merging with another school and pooling resources will help.

@Another76543 ,

The big study I saw in favour of mixed was Korean.

I do think they treat education and discipline completely differently there, so I would question its relevance.

Previous posters have mentioned studies in favour of single sex schools going back 70 years. I don’t think we should discount international studies either; we live in an increasingly global world where people are more internationally mobile. Whether or not some people agree with studies which show problems with single sex education is somewhat irrelevant. Many people agree with the findings which is why demand for single sex is decreasing and why numbers of single sex schools are falling.

Actually I wasn't referring to the use of phones in bullying behaviour, although that has obviously risen.

I think the use of phones has allowed much greater access to the internet as a whole which has had a strong influence on the views and opinions of teens - little of which has done much for the rights of females, and the way they are treated in society. I think it has even made young girls more accepting of bad behaviour against them. Think Andrew Tait et al.

Ist study 10 years old
2nd study based on Swedish schools (and presumably the Swedish health system)

https://www.tes.com/magazine/archive/girls-schools-biggest-bullies-breeding-ground
This refers to girls’ schools

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2016/apr/school-affects-girls-chances-being-diagnosed-eating-disorder
This is about girls

As I mentioned in a previous thread though, I actually think that everyone should have a choice of school, wherever they live. There should be a choice in the state sector of single sex, selective, non-selective etc. We have a situation now where vast swathes of the country have no choice, but others do. That situation is not acceptable. All children should have equal access and choice. Unfortunately, the state has finite resources which means that state provision has to be as economically efficient as possible. With decreasing demand for single sex education, it becomes less economically viable. I’ve merely pointed out the reasons why single sex is becoming less popular.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/article/2024/may/12/girls-do-better-in-exams-at-all-girls-schools-than-mixed-research-finds

This is a recent UK based study and adjusts for compounding factors.

I think it is really important to use UK based studies as countries like Korea and Finland have very different societies.

It does suggest girls outperform by 10% in single sex schools.

That is your opinion, but each time someone makes a false accusation against another poster that is also ruining discourse.
You must accept that others will offer different views, and insulting them isn't how you get your point across - to be fair there were people much, much worse than you. I do understand that you want the best for your daughter, I want the best for people's children too - I just see a different way of doing that.
As for lots of posts from me, yes I hold my hands up, but I am ill with a stinking head cold/bug and MN and podcasts have been my source of entertainment. After asking people not to bully, and my initial offering regarding difficulty in accurately assessing bullying levels, I do plan to sit back more today......🤐

I didn’t witness a single incidence of violence at my girls school in the entire 7 years I was there.

I didn’t witness a single incidence of violence in my co-Ed school, and nor have my children in their co-Ed schools. Do I think that this means there isn’t a violence problem in co-Ed schools? No of course not. Just because I haven’t witnessed something doesn’t mean that others haven’t.

All other studies show that girls achieve better in girls schools, they have better mental health

This is simply untrue. “All” studies do not show this. Some studies have shown the opposite.

I appreciate that, thank you.
I feel like this thread (and the previous one) is actually telling about how some people might not even recognise some forms of bullying.

I don’t think their posts have been abusive or rude but it’s the sheer number of them, I can be a passionate poster but this goes beyond that and the sheer volume and repetitiveness ruined the discourse

Which of those studies pertain to girls schools and which to boys rather than just single sex per se? Because we’ve acknowledged boys schools don’t add the value girls do, and the discussion is about girls.

Can people stop laying into @KeinLiebeslied54321 ! Her user name is a song, she isn’t Ken or in any way male sounding!

I profoundly disagree with her and have explained why, but her posts have been polite, nor personal and on topic.

It is different views which make a thread interesting…