To think that people living longer is making quality of life for everyone worse?

This is ridiculous. People are not “advocating for treatments”, we are saying it’s unacceptable to have an arbitrary cut off and it should be based on a person’s medical status and their views (if they can express them). We are advocating for promoting choice and individuality rather than simply saying “oh you’re 75, no chemo for you”. There may be a 65 year old who wouldn’t benefit from chemo and there may be an 85 year old who would.

"Hi can you hurry up and die please my child needs a park and I'd rather the taxes you paid your whole life pay for that instead of your care, thanks xxx"

It's not controversial, it's gross.

I can only hope when you're old OP that younger generations don't take that view

BBC link on why we don’t vaccinate against chickenpox

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20240229-why-dont-some-countries-vaccinate-against-chickenpox

It appears to be that (people thought) once you have had chicken pox, your immunity, which also gives some protection against shingles, is boosted by being mildly exposed to other people within the population with chickenpox.

So it was good for the elderly population for some children to get chicken pox.

Seems v odd to me and now appears that it might not be the case anyway.

Not read the thread.

Fuck me, what an awful title. What do you suggest as a solution to this problem?

Some people go into their 80s/90s and still live independently, and are in good health. My mum has a friend in her late 80s who walks 12k steps a day.

At the other end though, I cared for a gent who had advanced dementia but was in hospital and having investigative ops for a potential cancer. I did wonder what the point was.

@K0OLA1D thank you for your kind words

But this is the bigger problem , everyone's more bothered that someone else is getting 1p more than them ...

Why should I sell my house and pay for my own care when Doris next door has had a council house handed to her for 50 years and now I've gotta sell my house to pay when Doris gets it for free ...

But you CHOSE to buy your house , you've had a lovely home for all those years and now it's time to sell it to pay for your next home .

Sadly , the system can't keep affording to pay for everyone and at some point people have gotta start taking more responsibility for themselves.

Just like families who keep having kids and expecting bigger council houses , people who smoke and drink and expect the NHS to keep throwing money at their health , people who go abroad and have surgery then when it goes wrong expects the NHS to sort it .

At some point , we've all got to look at the bigger picture as there's not an everlasting pot of money for everyone sadly.

It's ok, I got stroppy when I saw the thread title. I'm still here and not in pain.
I don't really think the OP would be pleased really.

Explain to me how exposing the elderly to chickenpox is beneficial when it’s the chickenpox virus that causes Shingles. Adult re-exposure to the virus only provides about 30% protection, and that’s a generous assessment.

"The Shingles vaccine is not available to everyone though, you have to be over a certain age. I’m vulnerable with multiple conditions including rheumatoid arthritis and my GP still wouldn’t give me the vaccine until I was in the right age group, despite multiple requests from the consultant rheumatologist."

Sorry to hear this. I'm sure you can see the similarities there though between people saying too much is spent on elderly care and more should go into care for children, and then kids being allowed to get sick (potentially seriously) to protect the health of older people?
It's sort of 2 sides of the same coin as far as I can see .

And I know chickenpox is usually considered a mild illness. But it definitely isn't always. A child I know contracted sepsis from chickenpox, and another child in my town (who I don't actually know but is a friend of a friend) developed encephalitis. Both were hospitalised for over a week and were very very ill. How is that allowed to happen?

If it was remotely realistic there would be more than a handful of posters pointing out that the real problem is the greed at the top of the tree, and that instead of punching down to the lowest level we should be having a conversation about the redistribution of wealth and the booting out of the Tories from government so that idealistic and unnecessary cuts stop.

Aye. I can't understand that.

As for the argument about vaccination, if I'm now understanding the NHS website properly - and I'd be pleased if any medics could weigh in on this - I think the reason it's not being given to the population in general is that it can sometimes be too dangerous?

It's saying that it's generally given to people so that they don't catch chickenpox and pass it to family members who are immunocompromised, which is why doctors and medics get it - so that they don't pass the virus to patients.

https://www.nhs.uk/vaccinations/chickenpox-vaccine/

In practice I don’t think this happens very often given the number of people I know who have a DNR placed on their hospital notes by medical staff, because of multiple co morbidities and the fact that resuscitation will result in little or no quality of life.

I don’t see anyone here doing that. What I do see is people advocating for a humane attitude for the aging process and not judging peoples’ ‘fitness for life’ on how much they cost to maintain.

I’m confused too. It’s the chickenpox virus that causes shingles as you get older - it lies dormant. So how does it help older people to be around children with it ?

Agreed.

I'm waiting for someone to suggest that we withdraw insulin from folk over a certain age.

I haven't said that at all. I mean that it's illogical not vaccinate the population.

It’s not just their own lives though is it ? This poster is clearly disabled and has to rely on others for care. From that viewpoint, the thought that someone else - a carer for example - could be given the authority to euthanise you if they deem your quality of life not to be very good is terrifying.

My point is that able bodied people can assume someone disabled or chronically ill has no quality of life, when that person themselves values their life.

Agree. I think some posters here haven’t got their heads around ‘keeping someone alive artificially’. Anyone who has had surgery for any condition which can kill you if left untreated, is being kept alive artificially. Cancers are more common in the elderly. Why should they be left to die a horrible death untreated if there’s something that can be done for them. The human race is in an awful state if we’re judging whether someone can be kept alive or not based on what it costs.

The Shingles vaccine is not available to everyone though, you have to be over a certain age. I’m vulnerable with multiple conditions including rheumatoid arthritis and my GP still wouldn’t give me the vaccine until I was in the right age group, despite multiple requests from the consultant rheumatologist.

"upthehills1 · Today 18:30

WearyAuldWumman · Today 18:16

The situation that you describe around the lack of a chickenpox vaccination seems really illogical to me.
Show quote history
The mortality and hospitalisation rate of shingles in the elderly is wildly higher than that of chickenpox in children"

I mean, sure. But kids can and do end up in hospital or even occasionally die from chickenpox. To protect the elderly. Are you ok with that? I'm not. Especially when there is an actual shingles vaccine.

@WrenNatsworthy I somehow missed your post till now. I'm so sorry this is happening to you. 💐

Who decides on quality of life? Is someone paraplegic judged to have no quality of life? Someone with complex autism? Someone non verbal?

Where has anyone done that? I am arguing against people being written off due to their age.

@Kendodd Elderly people refuse care to prolong life all the time. My mother did. The difference is they do not have an arbitrary person saying you are over 75 so too old for treatment.