To think that people living longer is making quality of life for everyone worse?

I don't think anyone is blaming the elderly. It's going to be us soon enough if we make it that far. Who will care for us and who will pay for it? I think the answer will be not enough folk. There need to be some tough decisions. And yeah I think a premature baby should be prioritised over an 80 year old even if that 80 year old is me.

I do not see why the OP has singled out the elderly population. It is crass, and leads on to other sections of Society who are being kept alive unnaturally. Are people who have life saving medications included as well, for good measure!

That's such a bastard thing to be happening to you. I'm sorry, @WrenNatsworthy .

DM at 85 has outlived both her parents - currently we manage all her needs (Alzheimer’s) as know how limited social care offering would be
DF died at 93 only needed nursing care for last 12 months due to a stroke but it was hard to ensure his needs were managed within tight nhs and social care budgets
I’m 60 and could easily creak on for another 40 years - not sure I want to but until they sort out a U.K. affordable dignitas what choice do I have?
By the time I retire I will have paid into the system for 51 years - I would even pay more in both tax and NI willingly if I thought it would be spent wisely x sadly I’ve had to go private to meet my needs

I think many of those blaming the elderly forget about all the other groups that have limited 'quality of life' . Spending on children with severe and complex needs has rocketed. In years gone by they would have died at birth or during childhood, now they are becoming adults with severe and complex needs.

The Government chooses not to fund social care properly. Councils’ budgets have been cut to the bone by this lot so it’s not surprising they can’t afford to fulfil their statutory responsibilities.

It’s about time we had another government and the public demanded improvement in funding for the vulnerable in this society. Other countries manage it. They are also shooting themselves in the foot by limiting who can work here. We need a young work force. Most of us are going to be old, get chronic diseases and become vulnerable and those who are saying we should stop treating the elderly, the ill and, dare I say it, the disabled, might well find themselves in this position. I bet you will change your tune then.

I think eventually the state pension will have to be means tested. But it will be a very brave government which does this as it won't be a vote winner.

Why keep anyone alive then?
Premature babies? We now can keep them alive even before the legal limit for termination. Their care is expensive and some can require input for a lifetime.
Those who become disabled through accident ( dangerous sport, crashes, bomb injury) or disease (diabetes, vascular disease, etc)? We now can keep people alive who previously would have died of severe injury and/or disability.
Those with genetic disease, those with allergies, cancer patients...??
All use resources on a day-to-day basis be they care, support, clinical or medical.

But so much easier to pick on the elderly, the low-hanging fruit who are less likely to argue for what they need/require.

So if you want to start discussing who is using all the resources, fact-find about how much other resource-users are taking from local libraries to keep them alive, and then perhaps we can draw straws to decide who is refused them.

I think planning for future personal care needs is really important - as a society and individuals.

If it became the norm that people were prepared to downsize to safe, warm, affordable housing - and this was widely available (not necessarily rattling round empty family homes with difficult stairs and unsuitable access/bathrooms). AI in medicine could be used to tailor treatment, to identify problems with drug interactions and incorrect prescribing. The Technology must exist suitable for creating personal care devices that patients could control themselves and carers could spend a lot more time with their clients on social and wellbeing activities rather than spending their days on menial work and driving between homes. Care work has not seen the technological progress that other industries have because it’s mainly low paid and predominantly done by women.

But none of this is popular to talk about because no one likes to think of themselves getting old or infirm.

The world is doomed when we finally find a cure for death.

This would be true but it’s not going to happen, so I wouldn’t worry about it.

They stopped Meals-on-Wheels here (for the vulnerable) so they could build a huge great big cycle lane.

If you want to think about it that way, so you can apportion blame, there are lots of 'groups' of people taking money out of the system and, therefore making it 'worse' for everyone!

Why single out the elderly?!

I’d like to pin this to the top of all mumsnet boards and take out a big advertisement for everyone to see it! Spot on.

I'm 51 and I'm dying so that'll make a bit more room eh.

You think things are bad now just wait until the demographic time bomb hits.

I don’t think people are misunderstanding you. You said

So - libraries, leisure centres, parks, all vital for young children, families and others - being closed because the elderly desperately need social care.

As awful as it is for us all individually to lose somebody that we love….. is curing every disease, and having us all live to 100 really a good thing if it is at the expense of quality of life for the rest of society?

You are asking people to consider whether we should withdraw medical and social care from the elderly in order to fund libraries, leisure centres and parks.

@Pepperama Quite. Fascism, frankly.

The moment I have to rely on anyone else is the moment I’ll be hopping on the first plane to Dignitas. It is interesting how that assertion is so often rescinded when the time comes - or the goal posts shift steadily further away! There are thousands of people who have to rely on others because of a disability and who feel they have a good quality of life and who contribute to the happiness of those around them.

I was a social worker with adults for many years and remember vividly a young woman who could only communicate with moving her big toe - she was on a ventilator and relied on carers entirely. I spent some good times with her - her sense of humour was pretty racy - and she edited a magazine very successfully.

It is dangerous to start making judgements about others' quality of life. People with disabilities are understandably pretty pissed off when people do that. We all only have the one life, and we live it within the parameters we have been given.

Logan's Run?

You only have to see posts on here about inheritance and older people wanting to hand their homes down to their children to see where there's a problem in society.

Why should the rest of society pay for social care for people who have managed to avoid having to sell their homes to pay for their care .

Some won't agree but if you've got the funds , morally you should want to pay for your own care, not want the state to fund it coz you sold your house 7 years ago to avoid this and to leave inheritance to your kids. OK its nice to want to look after your kids after you've gone but make sure the state isn't picking up your care bill to enable that.

Sixth richest country cannot afford to look after its elderly and disabled… yeah right, only solution is let them die earlier. Not the ££££ taken out of the public sector by the super wealthy who more often than not make their money here but don’t pay tax in the UK

Interesting and worrying figures

I think the problem in the UK is threefold:

1. we don’t tax wealth and passive income appropriately.
2. The boomer generation are taking more than they contributed. Many of them have retired relatively young (the lucky ones on final salary pensions), will live to be relatively old, have enjoyed significant public services most of their lives, and have/will make a killing when they sell their homes.
3. We keep elderly and sick Alice artificially far longer than it’s kind to do so. If you’re smart write an advance directive and make sure this doesn’t happen to you.

Whereas some people enjoy it?? Have you any idea how offensive your posts are to people with disabilities?