To think that people living longer is making quality of life for everyone worse?

Do you want to apply that logic to everyone or just the elderly?

It would be a very sad society that would ask that question of a 90 year old. Pitting the young against the old is a really nasty thing to do.

@Futurascope you’re concerned about your dd’s quality of life regarding housing. Presumably your dd is fit and healthy.
But what if she wasn’t?
What if her whole life was dependent on care?
I expect you’d feel differently about life expectancy then.

You are showing you don't understand care needs of adults and your lack of understanding and empathy is quite unpalatable.

You don't need to be old or ill in the way you think of an older person being fragile, vulnerable or ill with many conditions to need care or support (such as direct payments given by the local authority.

There is a fast increasing number of under 30s requiring social care for anxiety/depression /bipolar etc whereby they use direct payments (provided by social care from the local authority) to employ a carer of their choice to go out with them to be able to socialise, go to the shops, take part in their local community etc. Would that send you to dignitas?

People with disabilities can claim PIP,. and also care provided by local council to the give support for many disabilities whilst still being able to work full time. Would you go to dignitas because you had one of these disabilities, such as becoming paraplegic, or having lifelong cerebral palsy or developing a progressive neurological condition?

Or would you hop on that plane heading towards dignitas if a bacterial brain infection that caused blindness in your 50s meaning you needed care until you learnt how to do everyday things again, how to be independent again, such as using public transport to be able to go and get your hair cut, learning how to cook and clean safely, how to take care of household tasks and paperwork - all of which help is provided by various skilled sensory support professionals, carers and/or direct payments paid for by the local Council?

Why limit your choices of going to dignitas to when you're old and need some care?

Why not get it over and done with and save everyone else time, money and resources and go in your 30s, 40s or 50s if you are unfortunate enough to suffer any of the above or similar? You wouldn't want to draw your own line so early, so why try to do it for others when you don't understand what all this money is spent on?

Too many people have little understanding of being human.

This is so so important for people to understand. Because the super-rich are invisible to us, we forget they are there and the cause of such inequality. We are getting rapidly desperate enough to kill each other (theoretically, on mumsnet) for the crumbs under the banquet table of the super-rich.
I worry that the theoretical and metaphorical will become actual, one day.

I’d love it if you started your own post just sharing these facts with Mumsnet, because I think more people need to read this.

One problem is that healthy people don't take care of advanced planning for the eventuality that they could lose capacity to make decisions.

How many people here have registered an advance directive with the GP?

I have the paperwork in my bag but still need to fill it out. That's the only way I can ensure that if I lose the ability to make decisions for myself, I won't have any life prolonging treatment. Comfort measures only, no antibiotics or resuscitation, and ventilator only if needed to keep organs viable for donation.

Sorry this is a tangent, but which therapy did you use? PM me if you like to avoid de-railing! Thanks

What if they aren't 90? You've ignored my responses to you. I'm 33. I rely on others. You said you'd prefer to be dead than do that.

I agree, OP. When we’re old we should all die like Edward G Robinson in Soylent Green 🤣

YANBU
But this is why assisted dying absolutely shouldn’t be allowed (even though I want it with all my heart). It 100% would be abused.

I agree. We should stop trying to prolong life as long as possible with endless operations and expensive drugs. For many people those extra years are not really enjoyable. Let us die with dignity.
Covid and the lockdowns highlighted this unfairness where younger people were severely restricted for way too long for the sake of the elderly. It’s like people who won’t get off the fairground ride and give others a turn. I’ve told my kids to just let me go when I’m no longer any use or enjoying life.

It's not 1%. The people you are talking about are the top 0.1%.

I'm a bit out of touch with UK politics but isn't "right to die" currently up for debate with some support from both main parties and some vocal public support?

Assisted dying, it's all going to be the person's decision, no pressure right? No references to lack of housing stock, no money for childrens' playgrounds, schools, or the cost of cancer drugs could pay for ten thousand midwives or whatever.

How odd then, that a puff piece blaming library closures on old folks should appear.

I think that for every one that just wants to end it there will be many more coerced into it through a combination of social and familial pressure and I don't think that the balance of "goods" will be right (by which I mean freedom vs protection).

I think some people forget that they will probably be an elderly person one day.

Well, the alternative is worse.

P.S. The genie is out the bottle. The money will never be enough. A semi-private system such as France or NZ is only answer

An important point also is that many of these old, unwell elderly with poor quality of life and no chance of recovery WANT to die. They are ready to go but nobody wants to take responsibility for letting them.

Completely different if the old person is in relative decent health and still living a life with some quality.

Also different are younger people say 50's with cancer as their treatment should hopefully cure them and then they get back to a good life. With the very ill elderly there is no chance of a return to a good life.

🤣🤣🤣

I know we've all got very taxed on various fronts over this post!

I think what the OP is saying is that the NHS is a victim of its own sucess. When it was established, the idea was the it would work hand in glove with welfare reform, social care, etc. People would take responsibility for their own health, and only use health services when very ill. All paid for via NI.

However, after only 2 years, the Labour govt realised it was becoming too expensive, so reintroduced dental and presciption charges. In addition, initially people were v grateful and were more aware of how to prevent illness, and things like housing and sanitation improved. But as years have passed, people have taken less responsibility and think, oh, the nhs will fix me (gastric bands for example). Add to this the brilliant research, etc which has found cures for many diseases/injuries, and disaster ensues!.

People are living longer (yayy!)) but using more resources because they have become lazy about their health (not everyone, I hasten to add!). Over the years, NI contributions have dropped dramatically due to unemployment and Budget 'treats', the NHS has been constantly tweaked and now needs an army of managers and bean counters to ensure these behethmoths try to provide a basic service.

This has created a pefect storm, and a big fail.

So, the simple answer to OP is yes, living longer is affecting others, but being kept alivecat any age, where previously treatment wasn't an opition, is contributing to longevity.

The richest 1% are making life worse protected by many governments- think Cameron’s austerity.

1990: 15 billionaires in the UK
2010: 29 billionaires in the UK
2023: 177 billionaires in the UK

In 2000, globally, 470 billionaires are collectively worth $1 trillion.

Richest 1% captured 54% of new global wealth over the past decade.

In the two years to December 2021, the 1% grabbed 63% ($26 trillion) of all new wealth ($42 trillion) created on earth. Just 37% ($16 trillion) went to the bottom 99%.

2022: globally, there are 3,194 billionaires

2022: just 500 billionaires are collectively worth 2 trillion

2023: the richest 1% of Britons hold more collective wealth than the collective wealth of the poorest 70% of Britons

2023: just TEN absurdly rich people have as much combined wealth than the poorest THREE BILLION on earth.

PMSL

I mean maybe it is bad for society if those pesky old people stop dropping down dead, but anything other than “ah well that’s life let’s roll with it and redesign infrastructure to accommodate it” is completely dehumanising elderly people.

I think some people forget that they will probably be an elderly person one day.

@mjf981 Interesting, what happens in Australia? If you have a private pension and savings above a certain level, you don’t get a state pension?

Does everyone still have to contribute to the state system during their working life, or can they opt out?

I think Hitler and Goebels had similar views op. You would have got on fabulously!

I was a carer for an ill old person for close to 5 years. The amount of support they needed was huge. So in a way them living so long (in poor health) did have a bad effect on the health and emotional well being of those trying to look after them. The doctors had anticipated that she would die alot sooner than she actually did.

The cost to the NHS also must have been huge - lots of tablets everyday (about 20). Lots of hospital stays, doctor visits, nurse visits. Tons of problems with teeth and gums due to heart problems. Thus 10-15 NHS dentist visits per year. She would also call out ambulances (999) really regularly even though her GP had told her countless times it was panic attacks she was having and to stop calling them. Special mushed up food and special tiny portions had to be bought in or made as she was too tired to chew. Incontinence, kept falling (more hospital visits).

Then she got attendance allowance which was 5K roughly a year (not means tested) and as in Scotland she got free carers paid for by council (they didn't do much to be frank but I think they were so so busy with too many old people and not enough staff).

The cost and effort of keeping her alive for the last 3 years was eye watering and quite frankly her quality of life despite all this was very poor.

I could never quite understand how she managed to get so much attention/money spent on her when there was so little help for mental health or gp access was terrible and waits in a&e were so long.

Finally a nursing home and so social and the council were involved there with assesments etc.

So yes in this case the amount of resources used to give a sick old person extra time could have been used better. I do understand how the council are struggling to provide other services when I see the pressure on them by the elderly population.

Also the state pension is struggling because people are living much longer than it was intended they get state pension for.

I think there is alot to be said for living as long as you are independent and in good health but then a quick death before you become a burden to your children and the state. I certainly would not want to be hanging about for years in and out of hospitals, doctors, carers changing me and feeding me.

I was widowed three years ago. I had been my husband's carer for some time. I'd say that he still had a reasonable quality of life. He had hemiparesis following a stroke, but had learned to walk again. He made it to his early 80s. I reckon that if it hadn't been for lockdown, he'd have made it a bit longer - there was a medication issue that wasn't dealt with because GPs were avoiding seeing patients.

Following his death, I think I had a breakdown. I organised the restricted funeral which his kids didn't attend because one was shielding and the other was worried about Covid. I was on my own at the worst time of my life.

I had some medical issues which couldn't be taken care of straight away - a benign tumour on a digit (would you believe - though I didn't know it was benign until it was cut out), a gynae issue (benign again) and a shoulder injury caused by moving and handling on my own. The bereavement coupled with the medical matters meant that I was pretty much sedentary for two years with predictable results.

Luckily for me, my shoulder op surgeon referred me to a physio. After working on my shoulder exercises and some others, she referred me to a Local Authority/NHS exercise programme which I'm still attending.

it's specifically geared to getting people fitter after operations or trauma and it's made a significant improvement to my quality of life. I'm in my 60s. I worked full time and cared for my parents and then I cared for my parents and my husband. Now that I'm on my own, I need to be as independent as possible.

There's a waiting list for the programme, however. I'd say that if it could be expanded it would have a significant impact on health for many and would, therefore, save a great deal of money in the long run.

I never understand why we have a public health bodies absolutely desperate for people not to die too soon and also social infrastructure that can’t cope with everyone leading a very long life. leaders need to pick a side.