To think that people living longer is making quality of life for everyone worse?

I think views on this are probably shaped by the life of the grandparents and other elderly people you see around you. My grandmother was fit and very independent including driving well into her 80s. She had a fantastic old age and I’d love to have my 80s like hers. Cancer then took her quickly but she suffered in the end and absolutely hated losing independence. Once she had a terminal diagnosis she would have been a good candidate for euthanasia with a clear-cut point but at least her decline was quick.

By contrast my husband’s side has seen a lot of dementia and long periods of decline and low quality of life. It is harder to know at what point in those circumstances id have wanted to end things as they all still took pleasure from life on the early days of the disease but good to a point where care was needed ans they were existing not living. I found it much more upsetting because of low quality of life they experienced for so long.

The last year for one of them was very hard- a lot of falls, pain and being in and out of hospital and the care homes. At that point you really wondered what the system was doing prolonging life eg flu jabs, antibiotics for infections etc. I would seriously consider putting in an advance directive that I didn’t want any treatment of that kind If I had dementia. A bout of pneumonia would be a quicker death than the prolonged dementia one. Watching someone lose their swallow reflex is pretty horrible tbh.

Yeah, capitalism is the problem - capitalism is always the problem.

But assisted dying will soon become euthanasia by stealth, as family rationalise and guilt-trip their grandparents (with the help of the media) into doing the decent thing so they can inherit and their children can have libraries, and so they won't be a burden on the state.

At least the boat people won't be getting all the blame any more.

So that's alright then.

Look out! That old person is gonna take your biscuit!

I have some sympathies with your stance.
Firstly I have a major issue with many people trying to avoid paying for their own elderly care. When I am old I want to use any assets I may have to provide for myself. There are too many people wanting to 'pass money on' because 'they earned it'. A view that care should be provided because of dues paid over a working life. But clearly the state cannot support this in reality. If we paid for our own care and those that could saved properly for it it would leave more funds for those that can't. I don't expect to use the state for my elderly care and then still pass on a hefty inheritance.
Similarly there is some debate to my mind about medical interventions late in life. Or extending life at all costs. There needs to be a quality of life debate as well as a length of life debate. As a society we need to talk to our families and discuss their wishes much earlier in life to understand how and when a DNR would be used. We also need to get better at ensuring the right trusted relatives have LPAs and so can make these informed decisions.
We are generally terrible at discussing death and having frank conversations.

Have you been watching “Logan’s Run” OP? 😂

I'm in my mid sixties and would rather pop my clogs quite soon than go on until I'm 80 or 90, unfortunately other people seem to think differently.

This.

basically people have learnt nothing from Covid.

I work in social care and in my LA the social care bill is far larger for LD.

Placements in LD costing £25k a week in some instances and these are young people who will continue to cost that much or more for their life time- the elderly generally only use social care for a few years when they're older if at all.

So perhaps we should euthanise all the young people with high care costs? Maybe do it at birth to save getting attached.

There is no line - we are a civilised society, or at least we are supposed to be.

I think the answer to the question is that you are focusing on the wrong issue. Prolonging the health and life of people and its effect on society can be managed, if the bottomless greed of the rich, and capitalism gone amok, can be first managed. There's nothing trickling down, it's all being sucked up.

This place gets sicker every day.

Human like robots for personal care is an awful idea. Robots don't care or have empathy like humans do. We all need the human touch when old and ill.
I have done care and would chat to my patients.
Just pay carers more ffs!

This.

Social care is decimating councils' budgets. Hence why other services and obligations are failing. An example is the crumbling roads.
What do we as a society want? Is it possible to offer the services we do to every man woman and child. I certainly feel the UK needs a mindset change regarding familial obligations to our family members rather than assuming local government or private entities will take care of our parents.

Some countries have a better family structure, we look to the state.

Brilliant unexpected consequence, we can get rid of the in-laws too! (/s)

There is no cure for death and there never will be...thank god. I don't understand people who want to live forever.

Well you are right but it is a very slippery slope. Didn't the Nazi's kill off old and ill people to pergect the race using economics as an excuse?
If someone has dementia and cannot give consent then do we kill them off?

Couldn't agree more. Nurse of over 30 years. Dementia costs are set to rise to £50 billion over the next 50 years alone.
My 84 year old FIL with grade 4 lymphoma and a 10cm renal tumour has just been started on chemo. I mean.....

My 87 yo nan manages on her own. Even walks to get her own shopping

I suppose these aren’t the people OP is talking about though. OP I get your point- if people having high quality of life and live independently then great but for people who live in institutional care for years with little quality of life (there are lots) and huge cost to the system seems pointless, especially when the care is paid for at a detriment to many others.

Nailed it. The issue is the fact no one can look after their families without often total dependence on external public services… we need both. And that means more funding for adult care services and it means a more equal division of wealth in society.

My DC are young still (primary age) and I’ve recently been thinking that it won’t be a bad thing if they don’t have children themselves.

I’d love to be a grandmother, but the world isn’t improving. Scarcity of resources, climate change, an aging population, the era of woke, radicalism, evolution of AI… are scary.

Having children is a vulnerability.

🙌🏻 yes this

Op, the reason public services are not being funded is because we have a Tory government. Not because people are living too long.

I’d argue the opposite, that the advancement in medicine has given many millions of people a better standard of living. Treatments for ordinary conditions that can be extremely debilitating and diseases like cancer have kept people independent and have been life saving, keeping people working, volunteering after retirement, looking after grandchildren and so on. I would argue vociferously that the squeeze on public finances and the running down of the NHS has put back some of those advances as people are waiting far too long for treatment, some even dying while they are waiting. We do have a higher rate of people unwell but a lot of those people are young, some with physical conditions but plenty with mental health ones. The latter are waiting up to two years for therapy and treatment. It’s political decision to limit funding to the NHS.

I have a condition that years ago would have confined me to bed sucking up care resources. Modern treatments mean I am active in my community and contributing to taxes and society.

My parents did voluntary work well into their later years, into their 80s in the case of my mother. Contributing to their community and supporting other people. I have many friends who are looking after their grandchildren, some almost full time, others filling in after school and the evenings. Not all the elderly are just sitting at home sucking up resources, they are in our communities adding value, experience, support, knowledge. They are the part of the fabric of society and I’m glad medical advancements mean that many of them have a better quality of life in old age.

Don't worry, I'm sure there'll be another better virus or two along in a minute to sort us all out properly this time. Not to mention crop failures, a few more wars and that little matter of climate change.

The Earth has gone way beyond its carrying capacity, but one thing's for sure - the rich of the world will continue to be just fine, they always are.

I'd personally hate to live a long time with the health conditions I've got, my quality of life has got progressively worse since my 30s. And I'm nowhere near as disabled as my ex nurse partner who's not even 50 yet, nursed on the frontline all through COVID, and is paying now for their 30 years of service to humanity.

Absolutely this 💯%