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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that people living longer is making quality of life for everyone worse?

640 replies

Futurascope · 14/05/2024 22:04

Possibly controversial…,

https://www.itv.com/news/2024-05-14/one-in-three-councils-not-confident-they-can-provide-basic-adult-social-care

“The fears about meeting the legal requirements come despite eight out of 10 councils forecasting having to cut spending on other community services such as parks, libraries and leisure centres to try to protect funding”.

So - libraries, leisure centres, parks, all vital for young children, families and others - being closed because the elderly desperately need social care.

As awful as it is for us all individually to lose somebody that we love….. is curing every disease, and having us all live to 100 really a good thing if it is at the expense of quality of life for the rest of society?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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K0OLA1D · 15/05/2024 16:41

upthehills1 · 15/05/2024 16:24

Relatives that value her but don’t value her right to choose a dignified departure?

What, because she doesn't want them to get her shopping for her or do a bit of hoovering?

WearyAuldWumman · 15/05/2024 16:39

lazyarse123 · 15/05/2024 16:19

  1. The boomer generation are taking more than they contributed. Many of them have retired relatively young (the lucky ones on final salary pensions), will live to be relatively old, have enjoyed significant public services most of their lives, and have/will make a killing when they sell their homes.
  2. We
And there it is in black and white. Why not just come out and say all folk who have worked and probably organised their finances for 50 plus years can just now fuck off and die because they've had more than their fair share.

You do know when you're spouting about making a killing on our houses that wages were nothing like they are now when we bought.

Christ people like you make me sick.

I'm a tail-end Boomer.

i'm sick and tired of the assumption that we all had it easy. The people I see complaining about Boomers are often relatively privileged middle class people who had a comfortable upbringing and whose parents benefited from the rise in housing prices in the south.

Many of the rest of us had rather a different experience. My dad survived the war, became a coalminer and saved up until he could buy a small ground-floor flat. (One bedroom. Inside loo, but no actual bathroom.)

We lost it in 1972 to a compulsory purchase order, so that the council could build a car park. Dad was given £400 in compensation - the equivalent of just over 5k. He had no hope of buying a new property by then and we finished up in council housing.

My mother left school at 14 and was in service for the next 13 years. Thereafter, she worked in factories. She spent a great deal of her time caring for elderly relatives, not only her parents. We didn't have the same access to social services then.

My parents encouraged me to work hard at school. The one area where I do see myself as privileged compared with younger folk is that I had free tuition and a means-tested grant.

I managed to buy my own 2 bed house. Paying the mortgage took about everything I had. I still have the same carpets that were here when I moved in in '86. I've just had to replace/improve a little at a time. Most of my furniture is second-hand.

I'm seeng younger people expecting to move into property that's in "move-in" condition, rather than being prepared to do things a bit at a time. It's just a different outlook, I guess.

Each generation has its own challenges. I've no doubt that when the Millenials are elderly younger folk will be complaining about them and suggesting that they've had it too easy.

upthehills1 · 15/05/2024 16:30

As a nurse I have cared for elderly with peg feeding who have been bed bound with no means of communication who have lived that way for a decade. It’s very undignified.

However that’s not the case for everyone. Many 80+ year olds are still enjoying life. My own mother is still working at 70.

upthehills1 · 15/05/2024 16:24

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 14/05/2024 22:15

What if you have relatives that love you and value you and beg you not to?

Relatives that value her but don’t value her right to choose a dignified departure?

TorturedPoetsDepartmentAnthology · 15/05/2024 16:21

Boomer55 · 15/05/2024 16:02

Well, if it helps, I’m a pensioner. I don’t need new knees or hips, and if I did I’d pay.

I have DNR on my records, as I don’t want to drag on endlessly.

But, it shouldn’t be about money - obese people are costing the NHS etc as much as older people.🤷‍♀️

Yes but nobody on MN is obese. They’re all very slim and earn 6 figure salaries so can afford private joint replacements anyway. 😏

TorturedPoetsDepartmentAnthology · 15/05/2024 16:20

MrTiddlesTheCat · 15/05/2024 14:58

The OP isn't asking about how we are going to afford it though. She's saying we shouldn't be providing it at the expense of kids having fun.

and worries about her child affording a house. It’s completely separate to funding social care.

Obviously we prioritise our own over strangers but cutting social care funding won’t help her child to buy a property. There are many things people can do to help but no, she expects society to do it! 🙄🙄

lazyarse123 · 15/05/2024 16:19
  1. The boomer generation are taking more than they contributed. Many of them have retired relatively young (the lucky ones on final salary pensions), will live to be relatively old, have enjoyed significant public services most of their lives, and have/will make a killing when they sell their homes.
  2. We
And there it is in black and white. Why not just come out and say all folk who have worked and probably organised their finances for 50 plus years can just now fuck off and die because they've had more than their fair share.

You do know when you're spouting about making a killing on our houses that wages were nothing like they are now when we bought.

Christ people like you make me sick.

Boomer55 · 15/05/2024 16:02

Well, if it helps, I’m a pensioner. I don’t need new knees or hips, and if I did I’d pay.

I have DNR on my records, as I don’t want to drag on endlessly.

But, it shouldn’t be about money - obese people are costing the NHS etc as much as older people.🤷‍♀️

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 15/05/2024 16:01

From all I’ve ever read or heard, it’s often the relatives who insist on life being prolonged when quality of life is very poor, while medics very often feel that letting Nature take its course, with palliative care, would be kinder. But their hands are more or less tied, for fear of DM headlines - ’Callous doctors wanted Mum to die!’

One case I heard of concerned an over 90 with already fairly advanced dementia and heart problems. The family opted for a pacemaker, even though they were told that without it the person would most likely drift away quite peacefully in their sleep.

I was given the option of hospital and drips etc. for an aunt of mid 80s, dementia, with the umpteenth UTI, who was refusing food and drink - or keeping her comfortable in her very good care home.
I could only ask the lovely GP what he’d do if it was his much-loved aunt.
He said he’d leave her where she was - it was only going to happen again, probably quite soon. And as I was already aware, hospital is a terrible place for anyone with dementia, when they can’t understand what is going on, or why.

So she was kept comfortable, still refusing food and drink, and drifted away quite peacefully after about a week.

Of course everyone has the option of adding their wishes to a Health and Welfare P of A - in certain X or Y circumstances (if you are no longer able to speak with full mental capacity for yourself) - no life prolonging or life-saving treatments, thank you.

K0OLA1D · 15/05/2024 15:56

LakeTiticaca · 15/05/2024 15:55

Nobody is suggesting knocking old folk off when they get to a certain age. The problem is that nobody is allowed to pass away naturally anymore. Gone are the days when great granny takes to her bed. Family doctor comes and tells family to make her comfortable, she's on the way out.
Nowadays it's 999 for the ambulance, takne to hospital, shoved on a drip, pumped with antibiotics sent home, rinse and repeat until poor old great granny finally runs out of steam.I used to see it regularly as a home carer, tiny, frail little old ladies and men, many with dementia. It's tragic. My mother was wise enough to give me and my siblings POA and put a DNAR in place while she still had capacity. She ended up wracked with dementia in a care home but was allowed to pass very peacefully without being prodded and poked and filled with antibiotics

Have you read the thread???

LakeTiticaca · 15/05/2024 15:55

Nobody is suggesting knocking old folk off when they get to a certain age. The problem is that nobody is allowed to pass away naturally anymore. Gone are the days when great granny takes to her bed. Family doctor comes and tells family to make her comfortable, she's on the way out.
Nowadays it's 999 for the ambulance, takne to hospital, shoved on a drip, pumped with antibiotics sent home, rinse and repeat until poor old great granny finally runs out of steam.I used to see it regularly as a home carer, tiny, frail little old ladies and men, many with dementia. It's tragic. My mother was wise enough to give me and my siblings POA and put a DNAR in place while she still had capacity. She ended up wracked with dementia in a care home but was allowed to pass very peacefully without being prodded and poked and filled with antibiotics

K0OLA1D · 15/05/2024 15:50

Macaroni46 · 15/05/2024 15:48

@K0OLA1D waiting to go on the waiting list. Appointment with consultant has been moved back 5 times from early Feb to end of August. That's just to get on the waiting list which is god knows how long. Hence me going private.

Ridiculous. When I enquired about going private for a hip (I was going to get a loan), they said they could get me in in 2 weeks.

Macaroni46 · 15/05/2024 15:48

@K0OLA1D waiting to go on the waiting list. Appointment with consultant has been moved back 5 times from early Feb to end of August. That's just to get on the waiting list which is god knows how long. Hence me going private.

SergeantDawkins · 15/05/2024 15:28

There’s plenty of money, they just don’t want to spend it on the needy, young or old. It’s being hoarded instead.

vivainsomnia · 15/05/2024 15:26

You’re not disputing the impact of an aging population though are you?
Of course I'm not.

My point is saying that an older person shouldn't get a joint replacement because of their age would be no different to saying that one shouldn't be entitled purely due to letting themselves become obese.

So are those saying the former also agreeing with the latter?

YourPithyLilacSheep · 15/05/2024 15:24

Gosh this is a horrible thread. The ageism is off the charts, as is the ableism.

I hope none of you becomes dependent on others at any point in your lives.

EasternStandard · 15/05/2024 15:21

vivainsomnia · 15/05/2024 15:14

Posting link again Obesity and joint replacement

You’re not disputing the impact of an aging population though are you?

It can be both causing the rise in numbers

It’d be interesting to model the NHS if we were all a healthy weight

K0OLA1D · 15/05/2024 15:21

Macaroni46 · 15/05/2024 15:06

So quick to judge. I need a knee replaced. I'm not obese (though have put on weight since mobility has become compromised) and I still try to exercise despite being bone on bone. The pain is excruciating. I'm in my fifties. If I don't get one I'll have to stop working which I'd hate and go onto benefits. Luckily I can (just about) afford to go private.

Are you on a list? I hope you get it soon. Its a tough old recovery (I'm 2.5 weeks out on my 2nd, so still very fresh) but it's very worth it in the end. Already my mobility has improved.

BruFord · 15/05/2024 15:17

Macaroni46 · 15/05/2024 15:15

Ok. Crossed wires!

I really hope that you’re able to get your knee replacement done soon, @Macaroni46 💐 My friend who had one last year was also in agony and her op has been life-changing.

5128gap · 15/05/2024 15:17

Well its not going to be cheap is it? What do you think then, compulsory euthanasia at 80, or that we all get back on the fags and pies and stop wearing our seat belts?

K0OLA1D · 15/05/2024 15:16

vivainsomnia · 15/05/2024 15:14

Posting link again Obesity and joint replacement

(Just to get it out there, not saying you're assuming I am, but I am also not obese. Or even close to being overweight! Just very unlucky)

Macaroni46 · 15/05/2024 15:15

vivainsomnia · 15/05/2024 15:11

If I don't get one I'll have to stop working which I'd hate and go onto benefits. Luckily I can (just about) afford to go private
I think you are confusing me. I don't believe NHS treatment should be based on any system of worthiness.

Ok. Crossed wires!

BorgQueen · 15/05/2024 15:14

When the State pension was brought in, it was only designed to pay individuals for around 10- 15 years and there were far fewer pensioners. No party wants to tackle the issue head on - which means forcing people to pay far more into the system.

Within 20 years, it will be unsustainable, hence the push for auto enrolment, but that is like throwing a bucket of water at a house fire.
I don’t understand care homes actively keeping dementia residents alive with antibiotics etc. Every dementia patient should have a DNR and no antibiotics as standard. They should never have received covid vaccinations either.

Years ago, a district nurse would see very ill elderly people off with morphine, as happened with my Grandma.

llamarammma · 15/05/2024 15:13

BreakingAndBroke · 15/05/2024 14:48

I don't think it is lifespan that is the problem, rather that the distribution of wealth is so insanely skewed these days.

Edited

Agree Smile

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