AIBU - motherhood has ruined men for me

It's not my experience with DH thank goodness, but with my ex it definitely was. It's why women are so knackered all the time, we don't phone it in at work or home. Whereas men give it all at their job then think they can kick back at home because it's all taken care of - yeah, by US!!

And the bare minimum expected for them to be Dad of the year! Reminds me of this...

I totally get this. I also find it insanely irritating when men are called "hands on dads" when have you ever heard a mother referred to as a "hands on Mum"?

Was explaining this to my male partner who doesn’t have kids … his brother does.

I said yes your brother takes his two kids swimming on a Saturday.

the classes for which were researched by his wife, booked by his wife, rebooked by being in an online Q at x time by his wife, with bags packed by his wife, kids hair plaited and tied back by his wife, swim kit washed and repacked by his wife.

As one tiny example. He then drives two kids to the pool and she gets an hour at Costa or whatever. That she’s paid for heavily in mental labour.

the hidden mental load!!!!

I know lots of quite good and involved dads, but they are nearly all a bit shit in some ways, especially mental load stuff. I know a couple of dads who do do the everyday mum stuff (eg organising play dates and parties, buying the clothes, etc.) and tend to be ones where the mum hasn't been able to be primary parent all the time, so the dad has done more and it turned out that it's not just innate mum talent.

However, DP and I also noticed a big tendency for mums to gatekeep a lot of the childcare stuff, especially in the early day, e.g. among our NCT group. You'd see a lot of patronising or dismissive comments, e.g. if a dad enjoyed looking after the baby the mums would go 'if I'm not careful he won't give her back!' as though it was more her baby than his. So it's maybe not that surprising if later the dads haven't developed the relevant skills/knowledge or don't feel as confident. I think shared parental leave does help too, but many couples aren't eligible or can't afford to do it, and the scheme isn't well designed to encourage take up.

I worship and adore women, they have been so good to me.

BUT, a relationship with a woman as a partner isn’t necessarily easier or better, it just has a whole set of separate challenges!

At this point, I am considering a life of solitary peace very seriously. I do need companionship and affection sometimes though… life is sometimes hard, but it’s also beautiful.

Hang in there and keep your eyes open for the beautiful moments.

This entirely resonates with me. I think the point about shared parental leave is an interesting one. I would love to see some research on this. It could help public policy.

The reality is that children and the home have been considered woman's work for thousands of years, if not more. Some men have got with the programme but not all, maybe not the majority, even in the UK.

Some men pretend they will be equal then aren't, once it's too late. The hardest thing is that often the woman has no leverage to make him step up, he can just sod off if he wants.

It's not that they can't, it's that they couldn't be bothered - they don't see it as real work, or really their responsibility. Strategic incompetence as someone else pointed out.

They wouldn't pull that shit at work because it's a 'real' job with status and importance and money (which bring external validation), plus men aren't judged on how clean their house is, or how well behaved their children are, whereas women are. So there isn't the same motivation to change anything.

Anything home or childcare related is really the woman's job in his mind, so if he does help out at all he thinks he's a fucking hero.

I think they can do it, they just don't out of a combination of social conditioning and knowledge that a woman, or any female family member, will pick up the pieces. I know a single dad with sole custody of two preschoolers and they are thriving as a little family unit with very little outside help.

I also agree with your mum OP that men can (mostly) do one task at a time, although often needing guidance just to do that.

They are utterly shit at multitasking. At least mine is.

Get him the fuck out of bed! Why are you allowing him to check out of being a parent? He does this because you allow it and tolerate it. If there are no consequences and you will do everything, why should he change?

Can you think of any consequences you may put in place?

☕
Obviously yab a tiny bit u. Not all men and all that.
But your husband is a bit shit.
Mine also was completely stumped by the contents of a bag for a day out with a baby.
Never quite got to grips with what constitutes an acceptable packed lunch either.

He would never cope being up all night with our ill child yet can do nightshifts in ICU - I don’t get it?!
My take on this is that he prioritizes his efforts for things that get him status and recognition among his peers, presumably also increase his earning potential by making him look good at work etc.
Something that will score him a lot of points motivates him to put in the effort and cope, but mere domestic childcare doesn't score enough points for him to be bothered.
As ever it is men prioritising their own interests and expecting women to do the same i.e sacrifice their interests for those of the man.

Yeah fuck off with that guys, we see you now, do your own donkey work or fall by the wayside.

Your point about shared parental leave is very interesting. My partner and I didn’t do this and OP’s description of men is all too familiar to me.

Mine was very hands on in terms of doing activities - but would not have been able to pack a bag for them properly. But I’ve thought that might be inherited from his mother - neither can she. She went on holiday with us and was missing several things.

Yes it's infuriating. My husband also has a very responsible job (lives in his hands etc) yet as soon as he gets home he seems to have zero memory, is careless and gets distracted very easily. Therefore fucks up on a regular basis.

I also have a pressured job but have to be completely 'on it' at home...

And he wonders why I'm not desperate to tear his clothes off 🙄

My DH is a wonderful father, always hand on since the girls were tiny.

My highly qualified Engineer DH can’t fold laundry or fill a dishwasher. It’s f@cking irritating

Of course he can. Women weren't born knowing how to do these things. He just doesn't see it or your happiness as important. He doesn't care whether it's done and he knows you'll do it before it bothers him because he has no clean clothes in his drawers or the kitchen is full of dirty washing up.

Some men CBA with housework or childcare because as far as they’re concerned it’s not their job. That’s that bottom line I think.

I was out for dinner recently and we were talking about this, and one friend was saying if her daughter had children she hoped she was gay. Her view was that was the only way her daughter was likely to have an equal partnership when it came to balancing work, children and life.

Her husband is a lovely man (and lots of people would think he's a good husband/dad - takes kids to clubs and parties, puts laundry on etc), but they both had professional jobs and were both meant to be doing 50/50 on childcare and home life so they could both work FT, but it was her that took on more of the mental load. She is now the one who has gone part-time (while he made Partner). I did post grad qualifications with these two and she got the highest marks in her year. If she had wanted this set up, that's fine, but she didn't and is now clearly not happy.

Thankfully this isn't my experience with my husband or the men in our family. We don't agree on every parenting decision but we're equally involved and I haven't done a food shop in at least 4 years.

Have felt that way since around puberty when I discovered how predatory men can be as well as the obvious unfair division of labour in the home and elsewhere.

I guess you are lucky you discovered this later in life when you have already married and had children.

The discovery you have just made has caused me never to marry and have children because I felt I would really suffer and would struggle and no doubt get rid of guys like that, and I thought it would be unfair to bring up children in those circumstances. Ideally, I would have wanted to give them a pair of equally loving and devoted parents.

Now I’m older, I do think it would have been lovely to have some adult children about the place, so that is your silver lining in all this.

Negotiate with your husband relentlessly until you are satisfied with the division of labour, even if he doesn’t WANT to do some things, surely there are others he can agree to do to ease the pressure and exhaustion from you… for example if you’re up all night with the kids, he takes over ALL sorting of the house - cooking, cleaning, washing, the lot! And he’ll be getting off lightly - sleep deprivation is no joke!

Be very firm and get his arse in bloody gear!

I always find having jobs we each do makes life easier. It is always my husband job to pack my kids bags for nursery. I've never got involved because I'm often doing other things. He does it perfectly. If i want him to pick up a job I normally do he kinda falls apart. I normally do the washing with some side help from him but I have to be in charge of it. I have to tell him what load to put on, which setting to use. He says it's because he doesn't want to get it wrong and I'll get annoyed if he does it wrong so better to ask questions. If it was me I'd talk to him and say I need you to take on some jobs which you take sole charge of.

My DH is and always has been very hands on, our 4 children are all adults and he helps them a lot. However he doesn't have anywhere near the instinct or intuition that I have, nor can he multitask the way I can. I honestly think that dad's are just not mums TBH.