AIBU - motherhood has ruined men for me

I can see where you're coming from, but it's not been my experience at all. My DH is a fantastic dad, a much better and patient parent than I am! One of the things I found so attractive about him when we met was how much of a good dad he was to DSD. My BIL is also a really good dad and just as capable as my sister. My own dad has always been hands on and as capable as my mum.

I agree, OP. In my experience, men prioritise things that bring them external recognition (usually from other men), wealth or personal enjoyment or satisfaction (sports, hobbies, watching TV). Many men don't care as much as women about the happiness of others - their wives, children, friends etc. I'm not saying they don't generally want them to be happy, but often they fail to connect the dots with those little daily tasks and asks of self-sacrifice which would make them so because their focus is themselves and what they are doing and most other people are supporting cast.

Totally agree! My DH is the same! It’s not rocket science.

My dad was incredibly disorganised and chaotic and let my mother do all the hands on parenting ( but he drove me to a place ride horses a couple of times a month and thought that was heroic). In retrospect he was probably on the autistic spectrum and dyspraxic ( my brother has just been diagnosed with those conditions and is very much like him). My DH on the other hand is extremely competent with practical matters, has the patience of a Saint and did as much of the heavy lifting when kids were small as I did. I chose him in part because he is so different from my father.

Menfolk are useful for carrying heavy loads and fighting wars. Women do everything else. To be fair, my OH does a heck of a lot of DIY, there are some things which physically I could not do and I'm grateful for his muscle and expertise. He does the outside bins, recycling and gardening, but I carry pretty much the whole mental load of shopping, cleaning and cooking, while we both have FT jobs. each to their own expertise I guess. It works for us as he has a DD and I don't get involved in the child rearing aspect, it might be a different story if we had DC.

Its not just men coping with parenthood. My step dad was here at the weekend, he is not well and I wanted to keep an eye on him. So he was settled on the sofa while I pottered around doing all the jobs I dont have time for in the week. Decided to get a takeaway lunch, but we had to have it from the place that does not deliver because he once years ago had a bad meal from the place that does deliver in our small time at that time on Sundays. So I had to stop what I was doing (cutting the grass), to drive there, go in, pay, come back. To cap it off, I had asked him to keep an eye on the time and let me know when I had to go and get it. Came in because he had not called me and found him watching tv. And last but not least, I asked him to put it on plates, while I put the tools away I had been using. Walked out to him asking where the plates were - same place as always which I have told him many many times. And then came in to him saying he did not know where the food was. In a kitchen with completely empty counters except for one brown bag with foil containers in.

When I told him later that I would not be doing that again, he was astonished. I know this is an extreme example, but the fact this may be tiring/draining or annoying for me was genuinely surprising to him.

Some of the problem is genuinely not knowing what to do. But much is an expectation of the effort that should be made by them or the women around them, and a refusal to do what they dont want to do. In the hope that a woman will compensate for that.

I've seen a theory that men see us as their 'helpers'. Their assistant human, rather than an autonomous person in their own right.

This absolutely rang true yesterday, when DP finished his lunch, leapt up from the table and said 'Right, come and help me in the garden'. He hadn't noticed I sat down to eat my lunch after him, and still had half a sandwich to go with food in my mouth.

I thought it was just me that felt this way! Thank god I am not alone.

My husband and I both have equally high stress, complex jobs. But as soon as he is home, he switches off any ability to plan, multi task or complete a simple request.

I've given up mentioning these failings as it gets me no where 🤬

"Their status as a male exceeds the status of both females and children" The thing is, our culture tells them this all day long.

Just think of the Bechdel test. We're background characters, there to support the central ones.

Sorry but I can’t stop laughing at men arranging a full on war but can’t manage a Sainsbury’s shop 😂😂😂

The fact is that men truly believe they are better than us. They inherently believe they are the superior and more important sex. Even the "nice" ones that genuinely love all the females in their family, believe their status as a male exceeds the status of both females and children. This is what everything on this thread boils down to, no matter how much we deny and dance around the fact. All the "but why / how could an intelligent man act this way" questions in this thread, on the wider board, and throughout our society easily and simply fall into place once this basic fact is understood.

Yep my husband who is a lawyer rang me twice from Sainsburys on Saturday to discuss what pizzas he should get for us all to eat that evening. I hung up the second time. Fucking ridiculous. Also he never ever ever remembers to bring water bottles when he takes the kids out. They are now 13 and 7. So for 13 years. Every time. I think he does it on purpose to wind me up. It definitely makes me fancy him a lot less this incompetency.

Some men become useless because they are allowed to be.
Child won't settle - mum takes over
Bag not packed - mum does it (rather than let him do it wrong and learn from having to do an outing without the essentials)
Disorganised around drop offs/pick ups - mum steps in (rather than let him be embarrassed about getting it wrong)
Won't/can0t change a nappy - mum does it (rather than make him sort it out)

If these men are allowed to make mistakes they will soon learn. It may be an uncomfortable learning curve but it's the only way.

I might be your friend. I frequently say this.

This thread really resonates for me. Not because my partner is useless - he's not, he's very capable compared to most men - but I am fully aware that my life would be easier if I lived with another woman instead. I find the things he doesn't do well really weird, as they're not difficult and he's a very intelligent man. He basically throws clothes at the washing line rather than pegging them out so they'll dry quickly. He cannot work out what DS should wear based on the weather. He cooks most of our dinners, but gets very cross when he has to parent too.

I have massively gone off men since I became a mother. Most of my friends' husbands are useless, to varying degrees. Many of them don't seem to be able to cope with looking after children at all. If my partner left I would have zero interest in finding another man.

It's tricky because given reality, I would love to see more support for women to compensate for the extra (on average) mental load, in policies etc. But doing that would just reinforce the current situation.

It's so rare to have a forum in which we can even discuss this.

I'm deeply pissed off about being left to do everything while xh has had no comeuppance. But no one wants to hear about that.

I agree in general OP - obviously there are always exceptions - and its put me right off men as well. Which is sad because I have teenage boys and I try to teach them to contribute to the household, but what they have always witnessed is me doing literally everything. And I just know they have learnt from what they see and not what I tell them. There's this innate selfishness in men in general.

Dh is not like this but depressingly he is generally seen by our friends as an anomaly and very unusual.

When I had dd1 he was behaving in my view normally but most of the medical staff made a point of commenting on his amazing ness so god knows what most men are like.

I'm not convinced shared leave would always help. Xh was the 'main' parent when our dc were small and I worked 2 jobs.

He still left when he found it too difficult/stressful. The biggest influence on him was his father's behaviour - even though he had witnessed being abandoned from the child's point of view! He hated his father but the imprint of "how to be as a man" had gone in deep.

I agree that Shared Parental Leave really helps in setting out equal parenting. DH is a very hands-on dad (more so than most other dads I know) and is perfectly competent to look after DD on his own including doing all the ‘behind the scenes’ stuff. He took two months SPL when my maternity leave finished, and although he was very hands-on before, I think that was when he really got what it was like to look after a baby without any ‘back-up’.

However, it’s not possible for everyone to take SPL (finances etc) and I agree that some women often ‘gatekeep’ child-related things. When I mentioned that DH was taking SPL to other mums I met on maternity leave, a couple of them said that they wouldn’t want to give up any of ‘their’ maternity leave.

I’m guilty of some gate keeping myself - DH took DD to visit his parents over Easter and I volunteered to help DD (age 9) to pack her things because I wasn’t sure he’d think of everything or be aware of what DD wants - he sometimes assumes stuff without checking with her. I’m also the one who books the childcare because I don’t quite trust him to get forms submitted on time, which I know is unfair!

Totally agreed

It's just they don't see it as that important. That's the bottom line.

Interesting use of language on this thread. Lots of women coming on to say that their male partner is a wonderful father, very hands on. This is curious to me because I don't really read or see the phrase 'She is a wonderful mother. She is very hands on'. Is that because it's a given that mothers will be hands on? Like a pp said is this an indicator of differing levels of expectation?

I often get 'You have a wonderful DH because he cooks and sews' - because it's seen as an extra, a bonus, extraordinary that my DH does this. Would my DH get someone saying to him 'You have a wonderful wife because she cooks and sews'? Use of language is a great barometer of the way we view things on a social level.

I'm wary of this notion that you fix it by giving men more leave and more family time. They take the time but they don't necessarily multitask like the women do on maternity leave so you just end up with women going back to work when the baby is in a routine, communicative, happy and settled and then doing a WOH job and housework around a man who just takes the baby to the park every day and thinks he is a hero.

When my first was a baby, and we were on "holiday" (hollow laughter) we changed the baby head to toe one day out of the changing bag when she had a poonami. The next day, I said "Can you check / fill the changing bag?" before we went out because I was indoctrinated (probably on here) into thinking that you get the guy to take responsibility by offering it to him. he was there the day before, he knew what can happen, he knew what the spare clothes in the changing bag were for, he knew that they had been used. I left him to it and when we were out, a poonami happened again and there were no spare clothes. To this day he tells this hilarious story through the lens of: I (me specifically) forgot to pack spare clothes. I didn't forget. I had it in my mind when I said "do the changing bag". I was doing what they tell you do - leaving the space for man to step up into. He didn't step up. he was never, ever, ever going to step up.
there was no gatekeeping from me. There are only so many times you can keep allowing shit (ha ha) situations to arise that you will have to deal with. you stop letting it happen

We are separated. he is still lazy. I still do everything, and pay for everything. But I don't have to live with him

I shared parental leave for DC1 and it made a big difference. But I also had a DH who likes to be competent, almost in a slightly competitive way. He's quite sneery of blokes who are a bit shit.

I have had to be fine with not being In Charge Of Absolutely Everything, and let the odd ball get dropped. But I suspect the biggest advantage DH had was a father who was a good role model. Not only did both of his parents work, DH's dad had to cope for periods when his mum was unwell and unable to deal with everything.

Yes! A wife would be great.