AIBU - motherhood has ruined men for me

They just don't want to do it. It's that simple.

Oh god I think it threatens their masculinity. That's what we're dealing with. Grim.

To be fair to men, there's two non-biological issues that don't really help that aren't their fault:

1. The example of their own families. My husband's family are very gendered in their expectations - my FIL has never made me a cup of tea in the 18 years I've known him. My mum made the pack lunches for the older kids the morning after giving birth to me at home, when my dad was there... It's not easy to tread a new path.

2. The way maternity and paternity leave are structured in this country. Two weeks as standard before returning to jobs that might keep you out of the house 50+ hours a week. I wouldn't expect to work into my husband's job and do it to the same standard with no experience, so the fact that he gets so much less practice means that he learns more slowly. I find myself standing back from gatekeeping because I'm doing something he's got far less experience of (and sometimes his experiments pay off).

I'm and older mum (50).

I gladly gave up work when dc2 was born, followed by dc3 and 4. I didn't mind doing the domestic work, although I went back part time when dc4 started school but had bolloxed my career and struggled in low-pay roles, but we agreed that was the price we had to pay.

Unfortunately for me DH has now lost his job and the arrangement is completely non functioning. I'm working nearly ft still quite low-paid while he has picked up bad habits, only noticeable now he's at home eg

• not noticing dirt
• not cooking
• if he shops, forgets to check what we already have so double buys
• parenting the easiest dc only
• prioritises his hobbies
• frequently 'forgets' our (female) cleaner's name

It's SO unattractive!!

I think in all honesty there just isn't a lot of choice - even the so called 'good guys' are like this deep down, and they don't get castigated for it in society so they carry on.

Often until children come along women can convince themselves that he will step up and pull his weight, or that they have an equal relationship.

But if/when he doesn't, she's either stuck resentfully nagging him or ending up a single parent.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=fHGibUrew-8

This is a hilarious song on the topic

Yeah I agree op. It's a problem. Weaponised incompetence- of course they are capable but if they do a shit job they know mums can't let their kids have poor care so we step up. Also the basics are seen as doing such a good job for men. Double standards

Those who say their partner does pull their weight I'd like to know who books the immunisations and dr appointments/dentist who gets new shoes in the correct size/school uniforms and all that mental load. And then- do you have a cleaner. Having a cleaner and me working from home certainly hid my ex lazy selfishness because he took the kids out and did the fun stuff so on the face of it gave 50/50. But the drudgery of parenting he never did

I know just what you mean, OP. It's the incompetence but also the realisation that men are generally quite shit. I know not all men, but as a group, men are also responsible for nearly all war and violent crime.

For me it's been a realisation that came not so much with motherhood but with peri-menopause. It's like the minute those reproductive hormones started dwindling the scales fell from my eyes and I suddenly saw men for what they are, and realised that women are the ones really doing everything.

I still love my DH though, warts and all.

How could we all have chosen so badly?
Men are on their best behaviour until the deal is sealed, they are motivated to win you over because they have a lot to gain from winning you over. Once you are captured that motivation is gone, they have power over you and so the predatory/exploitative instincts are triggered.

My DP is the only man I know not like this. And I count myself bloody lucky to have bagged him.

@Bettercallsaul2024 its not that he ‘can’t’ It’s that he ‘won’t’. Because he’s a hero when he resuscitates a child in a way he can never be doing what mothers do..Because what mothers do isn’t valued (except when men do what mothers do, then they are hero’s).

I voted YANBU because I see what you’re saying a lot on here and generally but having said that my son in law is absolutely amazing dad so there are men who can absolutely be the best too when helping bring up their children.

OMG same here! I let him one year to do all that stuff for us because I was fed up with doing it always myself, and of course it was a massive fail (expensive one).

Wow it really sounds like there is a lot of entitlement there @Bettercallsaul2024. What was his family dynamic like? Would they have created that? Public/private school?

OP I could have written this.

It's unbelievable. Lets hope our sons with finally get a cop on. They really have to.

It (very sadly) seems to be a common theme in my social circle.

All my friends are either separated or have similar complaints.

I can't think of a single female friend or relative who would say their partner / husband pulls their weight at home (these are all middle aged people in mainly middle class professions - law / medicine plus a few teachers) and those who are separated, only one has a true 50/50 with her Ex partner.

How could we all have chosen so badly?

You know what also doesn’t help is that I have a MIL who sees it as my role to facilitate my DH. I am a supporting role in his story. Even if we split up, I should still facilitate him so he can work.

It’s so fucking disappointing. And I can see how her influence has a massive effect.

The reason they can't do 'stuff' is because they don't really want to. They probably see it as 'women's work' or beneath them. They have little interest in 'being good at it' - especially when there's a woman who can take full charge of all the mundane stuff.

I think in general men are more selfish and have less empathy than women, whether it's learned behaviour because of societal norms or innate I don't know. So they seem to be less able to comfort their dc who is crying or sick during the night, or in pain with teething, or even able to put themselves in their child's shoes (metaphorically) so that when they pack a bag they know that the child might be hungry, thirsty, messy, need warm hat/sun hat and provide all the appropriate items. Of course, namalt.

No I haven't but I will order now. Thanks for the recommendation!

Yes! One thing we noticed as a lesbian couple before having our own DC was that at (family) parties all the men would end up chatting about interesting, grown-up things in the kitchen next to the fridge full of beer, and gradually all the women would melt away until the mums all ended up in the playroom keeping an eye on the toddlers. We could obviously pick whether we were in the girls' or the boys' room but the gender divide was very striking! It 100% hadn't occurred to the dads that the kids might need supervision, but if it did they clearly thought the mums had all spontaneously chosen to do it.

I really think quite a lot of men believe women enjoy all the aspects of parenting. I get the impression that's why some don't understand we might want a break. Or want a(nother) hobby? I don't even think it's malicious, it's a handed-down belief.

One thing I've noticed is that even though my DH is much more organised than me with planning and will fully take on the mental load of shopping/cooking etc, he is hopeless at the strategic part of parenting. What I mean is he has no idea about what he is trying to achieve with parenting, what skills he is trying to teach our DS, what DS is capable of from a developmental perspective, what he needs to scaffold, what he is working towards.

Case in point - food and meal times. We're trying to increase the range of foods our somewhat picky DS will eat and to get him to sit in his chair for mealtimes. DH will regularly offer DS preferred foods while he's meandering around the kitchen, ask me if we should make him something else if he doesn't eat all his meal and then get annoyed when DS doesn't sit nicely and eat his food. It's so frustrating.

It depends. Men I know who are great with the kids usually really wanted them as well.

Other times men like the idea of being a father, or just having the extension of themselves, but not the reality of the work involved.