AIBU - motherhood has ruined men for me

What do the people who think men can’t parent effectively think happens to children who don’t have a mum?

I’ve had people in real life ask me how much our nanny costs, or if social services stay involved as someone needs to book dentist appointments. I had a poster on here say they felt sorry for whoever does my wife work as we have clean bedding each week, most meals are home cooked and our children have hobbies, when I informed that that we do the wife work I was called a liar as a man couldn’t do any of those things. I’ve had a consultant on two occassions sit and just stare at me in an appointment as they “need to discuss it with mum not you” er what.

The thing is people saying to dads “oh you’re babysitting today” “aren’t you good etc” are also part of the problem, if you wouldn’t say it about/to a mum, you shouldn’t say it about/to a dad either.

All a child needs is the same as an adult, food, fluids, clothes, a clean safe bed etc, looking after yourself really isn’t that different to providing those things for a child. Odd how parents who can’t feed or buy clothes for their child don’t walk around naked and starving.

In a lot of places there is absolutely no need for anyone to accidentally become a parent, if someone feels they couldn’t manage work with cooking dinner, washing clothes, optician appointments, bedtime etc thats fine, but along with that they need to realise they wouldn’t make a suitable parent and so shouldn’t have any children. Or if you have one and then realise you’re finding it really hard make sure you never have a second.

I agree. I know several dads who, as soon as they have a day with kids but without wife, immediately desperately message all their dad friends for "back up". I have never met a woman who does this. I can't help thinking that they perceive a day with the kids to be tedious and are essentially complaining, but without overtly stating it, at lack of their support human. Why can they not enjoy some quality time with their children, or do one of the 101 practical jobs to be done?
I know NAMALT, my husband being one who doesn't do this, but it has really diminished my opinion of some men I otherwise held in high esteem.

Re the in work, outside of work thing, I do think there is an extent to which people sort of 'use up' their abilities at work and then struggle in those same areas outside of work. For example, a friend of mine who is a counselling psychologist and is really bad at listening! So I do think at times these men who manage to pull it out of the bag at work are basically using up all their abilities there and don't really have much left to give out of work. HOWEVER, that is not to excuse them as of course it is exactly the same for women in these jobs, we just power through it, often to our own detriment, because we recognise how important it is to get things right for our kids. Also I think quite a lot of 'high powered' jobs have traditionally had a lot of (often female) support, for example a CEO who would have had someone to organise their diary, brief them for meetings, type documents for them and so on, so these supposedly high flying men actually had huge amounts of support around them helping them to succeed.

There was an interesting thread recently about how much could be expected from a surgeon in terms of childcare etc. The wife of a surgeon commented basically saying her fella is out from 7 to 7 every day, there's no wiggle room, that's just how it is. Yet a female surgeon was saying that she does drop off to breakfast club most days, has certain admin days where she can be more flexible and so on. In other words, blokes in these jobs think their contribution (to society? family finances? their own ego?) absolves them of parental responsibility where women just get on with it and find a way to make it work.

In general, women are doing far more, working harder, doing a better job, and contributing more to society as a whole through unpaid labour. Men really will need to up their game if they don't want to end up redundant, both in and out of work.

Aw this makes me want to cry. All that human potential for the world and replaced by mundane tasks. Crying shame for all women 💕🤦‍♀️

I think this can be over half of men but not all. My husband is better at remembering the sunscreen / hats etc. Though previously I mentioned this on MN, I got absolutely flamed and I basically abuse my children by forgetting such things...

Women can be pretty mean but not all!

I think it's just a basic, men are men and women are women.

We are very different.
Some are better than others.

My friend says... There was only ever one good man, and they fucking crucified him.

The only thing you're being unreasonable about is that you used to 'adore' men.

They are all useless and always have been.

Hm. I don't think I agree.

I was probably better at organising and lists and packing the baby bag - though he was fine at that too.

He was definitely better at being a warm responsive containing parent to a tiny baby (without worrying if he was "making a rod for his own back" or comparing our baby with others etc)

I credit him with making our baby days enjoyable rather than full of perfectionist worrying.

Wow that upbringing didn’t help you at all @Bettercallsaul2024 . DHs father was in the police working infrequent shift work that he did over a very short time periods and his mother worked so his father always cooked, cleaned, did laundry. His father was a controlling abusive arse but in the plus side he did model very good work ethic in the domestic sphere for DH to give him the limited credit he deserves. It makes a huge difference I think.

Do all women think and act as a homogenous group? Do men? I suspect that some of this stems from the tendency of some people to think this is the way to do it and that is the way I want it done and anything else is slammed. This particularly applies to women with children I find. Yes I agree there are probably loads of useless fathers and mothers out there! As someone else said you need to divide your tasks and discuss what is the minimum you expect if you are the unhappy one. You need to accept that someone may not do as good a job as you feel it is. I have watched so many women while on holiday literally bossing men about with even the most trivial of things. It's an ugly sight.

Neurodiversity is such a bullshit excuse. In fact women have been historically, and still continue to be under diagnosed. Yet we still have to do it all

I blame their mothers to be honest cos she did everything for them and the most for my era went from mothers to living together or married to you.

I’d get but my mum did that dad didn’t bollocks

or your job isn’t as important as mine so you’ll do the housework yeah right matey not happening.

i still remember many moons ago getting asked and stropping into the bargain why he’d no socks like it was my job and I asked when did it become mine and he said your the woman. Well I never did his washing again ever. I know I was being petty I also refused to show him how to use the washing machine either. Strangely he learnt how.

@umami89 I read a really good piece in the economist a while ago which blamed low birth rates on men, or at least pointed out that in societies with low birth rates they often have v unequal domestic work/childcare hours for men vs women and women in those countries cited not finding a decent bloke to have children with as their reason for not having them. Perhaps written by a woman!

Without some kind of national survey how do we know the extent of male ineptitude in the domestic arena? Well, I guess from what I see on line and what I experience myself at home., i.e. intelligent, capable man just can't/won't engage his brain with housework, life admin etc. so I have to remind, instruct, guide, suggest, delegate, supervise and so on. It's bloody tiring and I've lost some respect for him. You are not sharing the load if you keep referring to me for help rather than just getting on with it!

Take a step back. Does it matter if he buys different stuff on the Sainsbury's shop? Sounds to me like you've back yourself into a corner by demanding it be done your way. Let him find his own way. Sometimes you might find it's better than your way. I share with my partner and just suck it up (or let the kids suck it up) when it goes a bit wrong. I'm much happier for it. Tbh, I've no idea how else you let a person learn than by taking your hands off the steering wheel.

I think you're absolutely right OP. I notice it all the time now too.

My DH isn't totally useless tbf and he tries. He does do the annoying thing of calling from the supermarket or saying he won't know what to buy without a list. I just tell him I have no idea what to buy either and then make the best of whatever he comes back with!

Omg that is why women's experience is harder than men's in motherhood and that's after 9 months of tiredness, actually the pain and hell of giving birth and then 18 years of shouldering responsibility. It's ridiculous socialisation that doesn't "compute" with them. I read a good book called Womanhooded that helps explaining why but it's not right women are still doing the heavy lifting in the home 🤦‍♀️🙄

Main thing I see with my DH is that if he has the option to ask me for help, he will, but if I just ignore the text or whatever, he sorts it just fine. He sees it as collaborating or something… I see it as trying to wiggle out of figuring it out himself. I think we’re probably both right to some extent.

There was a dad in our park this weekend with his 1 and 3 year old who has completely ignoring the pair of them and I stopped his 1 year old being injured twice. He didn’t notice either of the times.

part of the reason was he was in deep conversation and being congratulated by some woman with older children about how marvellous he was to take 2 children out on his own 🙄

Totally agree, and so does my DH. He just can't handle the 3D/4D multitasking brain olympics needed to manage such a range of different demands all at the same time.
However he does do his job really well, spends more time at it than me (I'm pt so I can be there for kids) and regularly vocally appreciates what I do.
If we couldn't afford it though I'd have to work ft and manage all the kid stuff, but I'd be very clear I would not also be chief houseworker if that was the case. It has to be 50/50 including housework/childcare/working time or it's just not fair.
Far too many women get lumped with working ft and ft children stuff, mental load, housework etc and that would make me resent and hate my DH tbh!

My husband does all the medical related stuff. Dentist we all go together and just book there and then for the next time. Husband does all the nursery bag related packing. We both get sent approvals for permissions etc, so it’s whoever sees it first. I cook the evening meal whilst he does bath and bed, he does all the washing up and cleans down the kitchen every night. He brings me coffee in bed every morning. Weekend we take in turns to have a lie in, but I probably have more!!

We didn’t used to have a cleaner, but all the cleaning was split, I would do downstairs and he would do upstairs (I got the better deal as there are two floors and two bathrooms upstairs - I hate cleaning bathrooms!). We decided to get a cleaner when our child was one as we used to blitz the house at the weekend together for a couple of hours, but couldn’t really do that as one of us would have to look after the child. We decide we both hated cleaning and liked our family weekend time too much so we have a cleaner.