AIBU - motherhood has ruined men for me

It's so so wearing... And here's the thing my own DH is actually a genuine noticer and doer of domestic and child related tasks. In fact arguably he's more on it than I am. I never have to remind him, instruct him or any such shit. He's never 'helped' or passed childcare off to grandparents (not that that was an option). I would fine any of the things many of you have described deeply, deeply unattractive....And yet, and yet....so so many of my friends, work colleagues and let's be honest here all the other women I know (with the honourable exception of two) have male partners who are just like you describe. It's so normal, yet depressing and fucking awful.
I have no idea how anyone puts up with it. It's so deeply unattractive and enraging. Yet gender roles are so conditioned. And as many have pointed out, having kids really seem to flip even the most equitable couples into unhelpful narrow stereotypical roles ....
Don't even get me started on the over promoted Tim Tim nice but dims in the workplace.

It is very unattractive to have to be a grown ass adults Mother . We signed up to mind our babies, kids etc, not someone you have sex with and are supposed to have an adult relationship with. Its just vomit inducing

Within weeks of him doing the bulk of it he was complaining that we were then messing it up (years I had that and was told I was being neurotic and critical if I complained)

Haha my dh was like this too - pre DC I used to do the washing up but then after my first c section I couldn't for a little while. When I returned to be able to use the kitchen, suddenly there was a More Efficient Way of loading the dishwasher. Knock yourself out dh lol. Tbf he does it every evening now with no complaints, it's firmly one of his jobs

The point is that he doesn't think he has to have a point imo. He is the centre and you rotate around him serving him. That's how his world works.

I think for some men at least, life is like a permanent sort of "holiday", to some degree. If you went to stay in an all-inclusive resort where all your meals were catered, your kids were in the kids club, the accommodation was cleaned daily, there was a laundry service for your clothes and waiter service for snacks and drinks, you'd be a bit bemused if someone asked "what is the point of you?" because you weren't entertaining the kids or cleaning the loo. Because your expectation on holiday is that someone else will take care of those tasks for you. Your "point" is just to live your best life, regardless of how hard the staff around you are working.

I think, even when not on holiday, some men live with the permanent expectation that someone else (namely a woman) will take care of at least some of these tasks for them. They don't need a "point*, in their worldview - because it's everyone else's role to facilitate them being them.

Seconded this LTB.

Also I'd point out that drinking beer and watching the footie (and even scratching one's crotch) aren't correlated to being or not being a feminist. My dh does all of these but keeps the kitchen clean and stocked.

Gosh I'm so angry on pp's behalf about the "I'm doing this for you". Grrr just why are (some) men!

You're not being unreasonable. And this is all men, not just your man. And precisely why I gave up on the one who can manage a very complex work organisation, but not remember his kids' birth dates, schools names etc. etc.

Have my first LTB of the week.

And to quote myself here I actually found I have lowered my standards. Like I'm being grateful for the rare occasion he does what he said he'd do, telling myself that he isn't so bad after all. This is a good reminder to reflect well during the next employee engagement survey. Not that it will ever matter.

either poncing off better prepared women if the emergency arose or like some SAS soldier fashioning a wipe from a baby sock.

Omg this is so spot on haha I know a dad (ex colleague) who absolutely does this. I do playdates with him because his kids are the same age as mine and I enjoy the chat but I have had to lend him a muslin, sun block, share my dc's snacks, remind him to book the soft play etc etc. I don't mind because it's only occasional but it'd do my head in if he were my dh!

And this dad took 50/50 shared parental leave with his wife!

I think the use of mysoginistic i
might be wrong here?

Id have agreed with you before DC. I thought we were equals and I had a good one. Now I see it everywhere. I know of very few men that genuinely pull their weight with the housekeeping, cleaning, mental load and emotional labour. In fact I can’t think of one.

Yes. This is it.

My DH markets himself as a feminist ally. (I struggle not to snort with laughter at this). He sees himself as one of the good guys.

Why? Because he would never cheat on me. He doesn’t sit around scratching his crotch, drinking beer and watching the footie. And to be fair, he’s always ‘helped’ and he does his fair share of cooking and putting washing on. He’s a pretty engaged dad but can’t cope with the emotional Labour of it so gets grumpy and cross easily.

But for years he didn’t clean. He would ask what I needed ‘help’ with. I fought this and eventually he saw that as he also uses the toilet, therefore he should take turns cleaning said toilet etc.

Then came the ‘I am doing this “for you” because it’s important to you’. Hmm. Ok. So benefit of the doubt, I said ok, well if I have higher standards than you let’s compare and meet in the middle. And lo, he also agrees the toilet should be cleaned at least once a week.

So now we have established that a penis doesn’t preclude you from doing housework, it’s just the shit that needs doing and we have mutually agreed minimum standards. So it’s not ‘for me’.

But still I would end up doing the bulk of it. He never finishes a job and leaves things unfinished. Just doesn’t prioritise it and doesn’t put his mind to it.

So we got an app to put the agreed standards in. Still things were always chaotic and messy when I finished work, despite him being at home.

A change in job meant longer hours for me but more money. I’m the main earner. I said I could only do it if he took over the bulk of the domestic stuff including the mental load.

He does more now but we have ended up getting a cleaner because he JUST DOESN’T WANT TO DO IT! But he won’t admit that.

Within weeks of him doing the bulk of it he was complaining that we were then messing it up (years I had that and was told I was being neurotic and critical if I complained) and suddenly we are allowed a tumble dryer, dishwasher and a cleaner. All denied to me when I was doing the bulk of it - too expensive. No room.

He just doesn’t want to do it. Well, guess what!! No one does!!

I needed that rant.

Gosh what sad misogynistic tripe. It’s pure sexism passed down from generation to generation.

My dad was the main caregiver and my mum was the career parent, luckily I don’t have my mum in my ear saying how useless men are. Luckily my own mum told me from a young age not to waste my life picking up men’s dirty laundry or cooking and tidying for them. Men are totally capable of being equal and capable. My own dad and my own DH are excellent parents and far from useless.

I completely agree. My inner feminist emerged once I'd had the DC and I changed forever. I'm headed for a divorce by the end of the year. I can only hope I teach my own sons to be better men. Amen.

Whoever wrote about nagging that's actually what I need to do with my boss, who seems nice but is a complete mess, unable to plan any work, doesn't do what he says he would and I need to nag him about things he's missed. He's incapable of letting his team know when he takes a day off, let's you know late in the day so the work he was supposed to be doing then needs someone else doing it who ends up staying late because it got communicated late.

So he isn't nice at all. He's a total mess but I do catch him talking to others about my area of expertise he knows not much about, but it looks good because my little product has done extremely well so why not take some of the glory. 9/10 women just aren't like that. I'm totally puzzled as to why women are told to be more like men at work, constantly blowing your own trumpet with very little to show, demanding this and that, all in the name of closing the gender pay gap. Because that's women's fault. Right. I'm totally sick of it.

This post is about the Men

You can always start your own post about the Females.

Oh God me too. I won't be getting empty next syndrome!!
My Dh was doing a job in the garden last week and kept saying can you get me this, can you get me that. I said sure and when l am cooking dinner l will call you in to get me a saucepan, a wooden spoon etc. Looked at me like l was mad but fucks sake get stuff yourself. But l mean obviously he works 1 more day a week than mr so is FAR more important!

I’ve started letting DH fail too. He complained about me ‘nagging’* one too many times. So now I don’t.

• Nagging. AKA reminding him to do the thing he said he would.

In office jobs though, even big office jobs, I see women being a lot more thorough in their work, more reliable and overall less bullshitting and obviously it gets them absolutely nothing because some man will come along and spread his wisdom and he's automatically the greatest employee. Men are very much a version of their persona at home as they are at work and actually get through work because higher up are more men, especially white men, who are the same and that's all they know.
I was thinking this too. A lot of men I know at work are actually kind of crap at their jobs, but they pontificate confidently and pat each other on the back and think they are doing marvellously. I see a lot of senior men heavily propped up by a team of lower- down, highly competent and conscientious women.
In fact I have worked in several sectors and it’s the same all over.
Its why I always prefer having a male boss- they don’t really pay much attention to what I am doing and as long as I am covering the big ticket stuff, I could be fucking up left right and centre and they wouldn’t cop on. Female bosses are always more on top of their remit.
There is one exception where I work, and it’s a male colleague I really rate as he is quietly very competent, and ( possibly not huge coincidence) seems to be quite an involved dad too, based on the sort of things he mentions regarding his young children.

Exactly this.

😂😂😂

I have often thought this.

I’ve just got home after a 13 hour day, doing a difficult job that gives us financial stability. He hasn’t been at work, spent at least two hours doing his hobby, zero housework and kids aren’t in bed because he’s busy chatting on the phone to a mate. I am literally wondering what is the point of him. It’s so unattractive this level of incompetence.

He can’t or he won’t ? Because there is a huge difference. If you were to die tomorrow he would probably do it ? Or at least I like to think so . My hubby is the same , although he can cope with the kids , albeit a lot more stressed than I would be .
I would like to think he would be ok if needed

Having children has been game changing for me regarding my outlook on men. Nothing before has made me rise to the Feminist cause more than this, and I feel enraged by the inequality. I felt like, and was treated, as a simple maid servant by my exh.

I simply cannot imagine being with another man again unless they were a glowing example hugely demanding and demonstrative of equality between the sexes. I suspect such an example doesn’t exist and I really need a unicorn.

I could be attracted to a woman - I have in the past. But I am so worn down from the lone raising of children, I have no time for myself, let alone having energy for an intimate partner - even were she female.

I understand your sentiments very clearly OP. I suspect this is why so many women are coming out as gay in their 40s and 50s. Their is something deeply deeply unattractive as a deliberately and manipulatively helpless male.

I agree but there's a lot less to do prior to having kids and you don't rely on your partner so much to get any time to yourself so it's much less obvious.

We are living at my MIL - whilst I was rushing out in a school morning that I do every morning (and then go to work 3 days a week) she asks me to water plants whilst she is away for 2 weeks. I said I would tell her son to remember. He literally doesn’t remember anything to do with the children/house. He only thinks of work/footy/running, but he is the ‘prodigal son’ as far as she’s concerned! I make a decision not to remind him after messaging him the first time, but she texts him asking him to water plants. He then asks me do you think she means outside or inside ones. I don’t answer so he’s stressed about that. She’s back tomorrow and one of the plants is dead because he didn’t see them and I didn’t tell him that there are plants at the front of the house that he walks past every single day!

I chose badly and it has ruined my 20s, 30s and 40s and I have not fixed it.

MIL is a martyr to domestic servitude, FIL strongly backs divisive sex roles. My H disguised this before marriage, what a modern man he seemed in the 90s.
He wouldn't pack a bag but then he honestly thought it was more efficient to wing it, either poncing off better prepared women if the emergency arose or like some SAS soldier fashioning a wipe from a baby sock.
It was and is deeply unattractive.

The menopause has done it for me. I have run out of hormones and fucks. I will never live with another man.

I also work in engineering and witness great problem solving men deliberately flunk out of home life. It's pathetic.