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To think these DNA ancestry tests make no sense

335 replies

CarolineFields · 11/05/2024 19:41

So you get back a score of 40% Nigerian. Meaning out of the tiny scrap of DNA tested - less than 0.1% -40% of that matches the average population in Nigeria. But if those Nigerians are tested, they won't come back as 100% Nigerian, so 40% of 0.1% matches people who are likely to be told they are 50% not Nigerian?

And if you are in Iceland when you have that test, you are told you are 40% Nigerian, but someone in Australia can be told they are 80% Icelandic due to being compared to you and you cohort?

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5YearsLeft · 11/05/2024 23:13

CarolineFields · 11/05/2024 21:59

40 generations ago you have 20 hundred billion ancestors out of a population of 50 million in Europe about a million of whom were Viking, so not only was every European descended from Vikings, but every European is related to every Viking. many times. Many many many many many times! ( and I have rounded those number down!)

… Look, no name calling, and I’m just going to go ahead and say your math doesn’t math and leave it at that. There was both a pre and a post Viking period. People already lived in the UK before the Vikings. There was a whole Celtic civilisation that many British people are descended from without any Viking interference. Vikings CAME to the UK to sack abbeys that already existed (they started at Lindisfarne). Out of curiosity, who did you think built Stonehenge… the Vikings?

In fact, the three groups that connect Europeans don’t include Vikings. They precede Vikings by thousands of years: European Mesolithic hunter-gatherers, Anatolian Neolithic farmers, and early Bronze Age groups from the Steppe (2507 to 407 years before the Vikings).

But to add the science, only 10% of SCANDINAVIANS (where Vikings originated) have Viking DNA. And only 6% of those in the UK have Viking ancestry. Not even DNA, but ancestry (an even easier task).
https://www.xcode.life/dna-and-ancestry/physical-signs-of-viking-ancestry/

I don’t do my own math. I look things up. I recommend it because we can all make mistakes like this. What makes you less an object of empathy was that you just kept telling others THEY were wrong.

7 Physical Signs Of Viking Ancestry That May Suggest You Have Viking DNA 

Fascinated by what your ancestry tests have revealed? But what if, alongside your results, certain physical traits could add more pieces to your ancestral

https://www.xcode.life/dna-and-ancestry/physical-signs-of-viking-ancestry/#:~:text=In%20a%20recent%20study%2C%20scientists,people%20possibly%20had%20Viking%20ancestry.

VestibuleVirgin · 11/05/2024 23:10

Oh, so sorry, @CarolineFields , you hadn't indicated you were an expert. How silly of me to attempt to contradict you by stating a few facts and arguing against your assertion that Europeans are decended from Vikings. Which apparently, is not what you said (did I mis-read that post?)
Next time, to prevent arguments, why not tell us your areas of expertise at the start.

CarolineFields · 11/05/2024 23:05

VestibuleVirgin · 11/05/2024 22:55

Do some googling about the origins of Europeans. You'll find that we are all from the (now) continent of Africa.
We were invaded by Vikings who spread their seed, as did many other invaders, several thousand years later, but we are all African

yes, I am well aware of that, but it isn't anything to do with what I am saying here. I don't need to google anything, I am a genetics expert. And these tests make absolutely no sense to me.

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nikki1391 · 11/05/2024 23:05

I did one 8 years ago and it updates every now and again but the changes have always been only slight. It’s just an estimate and for me it seems quite accurate when I look back in my family tree. It also accurately matched all family members who have also taken the test

VestibuleVirgin · 11/05/2024 22:55

CarolineFields · 11/05/2024 21:47

It is not incorrect, it is correct, so if the DNA ancestry tests don't say that, then they are incomplete, aren't they - but incomplete is the least of their issues - they make no sense at all.

Do some googling about the origins of Europeans. You'll find that we are all from the (now) continent of Africa.
We were invaded by Vikings who spread their seed, as did many other invaders, several thousand years later, but we are all African

keffie12 · 11/05/2024 22:50

Daughter re above

keffie12 · 11/05/2024 22:49

I did mine. It matched up to what I already knew about the past 3 gen of my family.

It also revealed other family links into the equation. They are accurate. They wouldn't be allowed to be sold if otherwise.

Yes, it answered a couple of questions about my paternal grandma LOL

We are meant to understand the % and how they arrive it. It's medical science re DNA. It's what is used through all DNA related work.

My friend was able to find out who her dad was and family through it. She never knew any of them. Her mom never told her much. It all fitted in.

Why are people ethicentry different is because people have always moved around the world hence why it is different.

My own ethnicity came through from Sweden (Nope, I'm not unfortunately related to ABBA, ha)

My saufgrer on it too. It's accurate with hers, too.

It's blinking confusing using the site, though

CarolineFields · 11/05/2024 22:49

Misthios · 11/05/2024 22:35

No @CarolineFields you're wrong.

My "ethnicity report" comes back very firmly to SE Scotland. But none of my strongest matches are in SE Scotland, they are in America, Australia, South Africa. Quite obviously I do not have S African or Australian roots.

Ancestry explains how they calculate the ethnicity reports here: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/c/dna/ancestry-dna-ethnicity-estimate-update - it's all about reference panels, people like me whose ancestors lived in the same place forever and ever and have done a family tree properly, not just clicked and added loads of hints.

Obviously we're all a mix and depending on the level of information they might not be able to determine anythign more precise than West Africa or SE Asia or something.

sorry, but this is just not meaningful in any way. It completely contradicts the proper , academic research done on the genetic communities in the UK for a start, and I don't have any faith in their methodology or ability to process or evaluate their data.

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Misthios · 11/05/2024 22:35

No @CarolineFields you're wrong.

My "ethnicity report" comes back very firmly to SE Scotland. But none of my strongest matches are in SE Scotland, they are in America, Australia, South Africa. Quite obviously I do not have S African or Australian roots.

Ancestry explains how they calculate the ethnicity reports here: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/c/dna/ancestry-dna-ethnicity-estimate-update - it's all about reference panels, people like me whose ancestors lived in the same place forever and ever and have done a family tree properly, not just clicked and added loads of hints.

Obviously we're all a mix and depending on the level of information they might not be able to determine anythign more precise than West Africa or SE Asia or something.

NothingWithoutEffort · 11/05/2024 22:30

I'm with you @ClipClopperDontStopper - the product isn't the genomic test, it's your genomic data.

CarolineFields · 11/05/2024 22:21

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 11/05/2024 22:05

Well l did mine because l was adopted, and wanted to know my heritage.

Is this the demographic you’re referring to?

It is not going to tell you your "heritage" though. It is going to tell you where some people who match some of the 0.1% of DNA looked at live. Whatever their heritage. They might have lived there 20 minutes. They might not even live there at all, and have lied on their form - they are not under any obligation to tell the truth

And I would argue that your "heritage" is what you experience in your life, not some biochemical in your cells.

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Misthios · 11/05/2024 22:15

Yeah you don't understand how autosomal DNA tests work.

Autosomal is not about deep ethnicity, it's about cousin matching over the last 4 or 5 generations, 6 at a push. Once you get that far back the amount of shared DNA is tiny, and because of the way DNA recombines, it's entirely possible that you are a 5th cousin of someone and have no shared DNA at all.

Y-DNA tests are a very different thing but these are not offered by Ancestry or 23andMe, or MyHeritage, and only for biological males. As the Y chromosome does not mutate quickly, you can link up with other people and find earliest common ancestors much further back.

Again - whatever the marketing says, the Ancestry and other DNA tests are to find genetic relatives, not deep ancestral roots.

Walker1178 · 11/05/2024 22:10

5YearsLeft · 11/05/2024 21:21

I really wonder about this. I have a disease that is virtually unknown in the west but rates are very high in Turkey (where it is well-known and studied) and all along the old “Silk Road,” so much so that it’s colloquially known as “Silk Road disease.” I know my paternal grandmother was Welsh, but I don’t know that much about my paternal grandfather’s family, or either of my maternal grandparents. I’ve thought about taking one of these tests but I guess I worry it won’t change anything?

We used the My Heritage tests as I was advised it would be the better option, the results came in a really cool little video and had an explanation of each ethnicity. There are other tests that focus more on inherited conditions but we did it for fun as DP joked he’s 100% Kazakh.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 11/05/2024 22:05

OfficeWoes · 11/05/2024 20:18

Adam Rutherford has some criticism of these, and as a geneticist I think his take is worth listening to. Personally, I did a test and it returned very narrow results which didn’t match up to what I understood my family complexities to be, and maybe that’s because it’s all about who else has taken the tests and it doesn’t really prove anything much at all, not that there even is anything to prove. Like said above, it’s sold on some romantic notion of weird Viking longings. It seems like the only people who bother taking these tests are people of one particular demographic group, albeit spread throughout UK, USA and Australia. I guess that’s the group who can afford this.

Well l did mine because l was adopted, and wanted to know my heritage.

Is this the demographic you’re referring to?

CarolineFields · 11/05/2024 21:59

Vikings were also in North America, North Africa and Asia

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CarolineFields · 11/05/2024 21:59

40 generations ago you have 20 hundred billion ancestors out of a population of 50 million in Europe about a million of whom were Viking, so not only was every European descended from Vikings, but every European is related to every Viking. many times. Many many many many many times! ( and I have rounded those number down!)

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CarolineFields · 11/05/2024 21:47

VestibuleVirgin · 11/05/2024 21:06

How did you come to that (incorrect) conclusion?

It is not incorrect, it is correct, so if the DNA ancestry tests don't say that, then they are incomplete, aren't they - but incomplete is the least of their issues - they make no sense at all.

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IAmThe1AndOnly · 11/05/2024 21:37

ClipClopperDontStopper · 11/05/2024 21:21

Ooooof. What a shock that must have been to the family. I was reading a stat about these DNA testing kits and something like 4% throw up a 'shocking' result, like in your friend's case. I wonder how many people take the results as gospel? All kinds of chaos could ensue. And it might be a bullshit mistake.

My main issue is I'm a bit of a tinfoil hat wearer when it comes to giving up my DNA to some random private company.

It nearly ended her parents’ marriage. That was why they had professional tests done.

i too wouldn’t send my DNA off.

SprigatitoYouAndIKnow · 11/05/2024 21:25

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 11/05/2024 21:14

My family came back mostly German and hardly any French (we have a lot of French in the family and some German but less so). My mum was really pissed off with ancestry.

The internet dna kits are banned in France, so there will be a much smaller pool of data available. Probably only people who have emigrated. France and Germany are next to each other, so probably have a lot of crossing over heritage.

OfficeWoes · 11/05/2024 21:21

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 11/05/2024 21:14

My family came back mostly German and hardly any French (we have a lot of French in the family and some German but less so). My mum was really pissed off with ancestry.

From what I understand that is because the other people who take these tests are German rather than French? People forget how much culture influences this.

5YearsLeft · 11/05/2024 21:21

Walker1178 · 11/05/2024 20:56

My DP is Kazakh, not a country I would expect to come up randomly. I bought him a test and it did indeed come back with Kazakh as the highest proportion so I’m pretty sure it was accurate. He had a smattering of ethnicities from along the ‘silk road’ line which would also make sense.

I really wonder about this. I have a disease that is virtually unknown in the west but rates are very high in Turkey (where it is well-known and studied) and all along the old “Silk Road,” so much so that it’s colloquially known as “Silk Road disease.” I know my paternal grandmother was Welsh, but I don’t know that much about my paternal grandfather’s family, or either of my maternal grandparents. I’ve thought about taking one of these tests but I guess I worry it won’t change anything?

ClipClopperDontStopper · 11/05/2024 21:21

IAmThe1AndOnly · 11/05/2024 21:14

I know someone who did one of these and it told her that her father was not her father. Except that when they visited a professional geneticist the DNA showed that he was.

Ooooof. What a shock that must have been to the family. I was reading a stat about these DNA testing kits and something like 4% throw up a 'shocking' result, like in your friend's case. I wonder how many people take the results as gospel? All kinds of chaos could ensue. And it might be a bullshit mistake.

My main issue is I'm a bit of a tinfoil hat wearer when it comes to giving up my DNA to some random private company.

Deadringer · 11/05/2024 21:18

My mums was very accurate, it named 2 areas of ireland, her mum was from one, her dad from the other. They can both trace there families back a long way in those areas. She has no Scandinavian blood at all.

BIossomtoes · 11/05/2024 21:17

Seashor · 11/05/2024 20:05

My was very, very accurate.

Mine was too. It was absolutely no surprise that half my genes are from the area around Roscommon and the other half are East Anglian. The 4% Norwegian was a bit of a surprise!

IAmThe1AndOnly · 11/05/2024 21:14

I know someone who did one of these and it told her that her father was not her father. Except that when they visited a professional geneticist the DNA showed that he was.