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To think these DNA ancestry tests make no sense

335 replies

CarolineFields · 11/05/2024 19:41

So you get back a score of 40% Nigerian. Meaning out of the tiny scrap of DNA tested - less than 0.1% -40% of that matches the average population in Nigeria. But if those Nigerians are tested, they won't come back as 100% Nigerian, so 40% of 0.1% matches people who are likely to be told they are 50% not Nigerian?

And if you are in Iceland when you have that test, you are told you are 40% Nigerian, but someone in Australia can be told they are 80% Icelandic due to being compared to you and you cohort?

OP posts:
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PointWriter · 12/05/2024 04:20

CarolineFields · 11/05/2024 22:21

It is not going to tell you your "heritage" though. It is going to tell you where some people who match some of the 0.1% of DNA looked at live. Whatever their heritage. They might have lived there 20 minutes. They might not even live there at all, and have lied on their form - they are not under any obligation to tell the truth

And I would argue that your "heritage" is what you experience in your life, not some biochemical in your cells.

Edited

What a rude reply to the poster - it doesn't matter what you believe about heritage, if an adoptee wants to take a DNA test to learn more about their biological heritage then that should be respected, not invalidated.

Of course their physical heritage would be important to them, not just their lived experience.

For someone claiming to be an expert you're coming across as badly informed as well as naive.

Gingerkittykat · 12/05/2024 03:00

CarolineFields · 11/05/2024 21:59

40 generations ago you have 20 hundred billion ancestors out of a population of 50 million in Europe about a million of whom were Viking, so not only was every European descended from Vikings, but every European is related to every Viking. many times. Many many many many many times! ( and I have rounded those number down!)

There have only been approximately 117 billion people who have ever lived (including people alive now) so it is impossible to have had as many ancestors as you state.

starrynight47 · 12/05/2024 02:40

A friend of mine found out that he had a daughter, who he'd never known about. By luck, his wife had given him a DNA test as a gift, and his "long lost" daughter had also done a DNA test as a bit of fun. They were matched up , got in contact, and discovered that he'd fathered her just before going overseas in the Army. Her biological mother never told him she was pregnant , and never told her daughter who the father was. The father and daughter were both so happy to be reunited - it was like an episode of "Long Lost Family".

merrymelodies · 12/05/2024 02:03

Mine shows my Finnish/Anglo heritage with a dash of Mongolian.

nozbottheblue · 12/05/2024 01:39

I'm trying to understand your original post, OP.
The 0.1% that you refer to: do you mean the sample that you give to Ancestry for testing is 0.1% of the total DNA in your body?
But surely as a genetics expert you know that your whole genome is contained in every cell of your body, so your results are 100% of your genome, not 0.1%.
If that isn't what you were referring to, please explain further.

Mama2many73 · 12/05/2024 01:14

ClipClopperDontStopper · 11/05/2024 21:21

Ooooof. What a shock that must have been to the family. I was reading a stat about these DNA testing kits and something like 4% throw up a 'shocking' result, like in your friend's case. I wonder how many people take the results as gospel? All kinds of chaos could ensue. And it might be a bullshit mistake.

My main issue is I'm a bit of a tinfoil hat wearer when it comes to giving up my DNA to some random private company.

There's a podcast called The Gift (I think, a people often gibe them as gifts) which looks at the 'secrets' that DNA tests have brought up. Some pretty obvious, dad isn't dad but some other really strange/unusual links.

thesunday · 12/05/2024 01:04

CarolineFields · 11/05/2024 20:14

how do you know?

Edited

Mine was also accurate based on what I know about my family in the past 200 or so years.

thesunday · 12/05/2024 01:01

CarolineFields · 11/05/2024 20:21

well, everyone in Europe North America, North Africa or Asia has Viking ancestors. Dont need any sort of DNA test to know that.

This isn’t correct.

LadyEloise1 · 12/05/2024 00:59

It was very accurate for my dh.

5YearsLeft · 12/05/2024 00:51

CarolineFields · 11/05/2024 23:20

show me where my maths is wrong!

I am telling you I am right, because I know I am, and your post shows you have not understood anything I have said.

I'll try again.

Rounding all numbers to an average. 1000 years ago. Aprox 40 generations, given a generation time of 25 years. So you have 22 hundred billion ancestors at that point. But there is only 50 million people here. And 1 million of them are Vikings. So the average Viking is related to you 22 hundred million times.

Yeah, there’s no way to even explain how wrong your math is. You do realize you’re saying, “But there [are] only 50 million people here. And a million of them are Vikings.” Yes, that’s true. There are 50 million people in the UK today. A million of them aren’t Vikings. There haven’t always been 50 million. This may be shocking but the amount of people in the world grows every generation. To do recursive math like that, you’d have to know how many there HAD been each year, and I’ve just told you that the science SHOWS you’re wrong and so very wrong. Vikings were invaders in a Celtic land. Ffs, Irish has been spoken in Ireland since long before the Vikings.

The estimate is that, in the history of the world, only 117 billion people have ever successfully lived on earth and a lot of them lived short, brutal lives and died childless. So, 22 million billion ancestors…?

So if I were you, I’d stop proclaiming the sky is purple. Unless this is just one of those goady ridiculous Saturday night threads; it probably is. Regardless, no point in answering you anymore. You won’t listen to reason or science.

HalfSiblingsMadeContact · 11/05/2024 23:51

It's not that your maths is "wrong", but your interpretation is poor. I too did not read your initial posts as those of someone with a high level of genetics understanding, sorry.

(I wouldn't call myself an expert, but have degree level maths and some postgrad genetics study, amongst other things).

From what I hear, the "ethnicity" interpretations from these DNA tests are improving but I agree there are substantial flaws (eg if the tests aren't allowed in France!). I have serious concerns about privacy and consent - see username, I was not in contact with a relative who had done a test but that was the link through which I was tracked down.

Roastiesarethebestbit · 11/05/2024 23:46

So we are all descended from Viking’s because 40 generations ago we have more ancestors than people alive at the time? So doesn’t the same logic mean that we are descended from everyone alive at that time?

EatMoreFibre · 11/05/2024 23:37

Just to give some context to the opening post...

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/tradition/a60755278/meghan-markle-nigeria-honor-quotes/

DH's ancestry results followed closely his family records to 6 generations- his heritage is very mixed with unusual combinations from several continents. It was bizarre to see the percentages corroborating what he knew.

Just my two cents as someone who doesn't have a degree in geneticsGrin

Meghan Markle Says It Is an Honor to be in Nigeria

Meghan also spoke about Prince Archie and Princess Lilibet as she and Prince Harry visited a school in Abuja this morning.

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/tradition/a60755278/meghan-markle-nigeria-honor-quotes

Karensalright · 11/05/2024 23:37

DNA tests are pointless without drawing up your own family tree.

I am on ancestry and me and my mum did a DNA test because her dad was unknown, other than he was a GI.

the results we got meant i was able to identify who my grandfather was. It involved some of my mums first cousins doing DNA to eliminate them as siblings, so after three years of DNA and document searches we knew who he was.

This also explained my high Scottish/irish heritage.

And the area of my largest DNA linkage of three miles in ireland is totally correct.

CarolineFields · 11/05/2024 23:35

AllPrincessAnneshorses · 11/05/2024 23:29

She's being polite. You are talking nonsense, and need to listen to her rather than double down.

I am not talking nonsense, show me where my maths is wrong.

OP posts:
Theunamedcat · 11/05/2024 23:33

It worked for me my ancestor's came from Scotland on one parents side Wales on the other and we settled in England it came back Scottish Welsh and mainly English very simple and straightforward

Tel12 · 11/05/2024 23:33

My background is complex and my test results were surprisingly accurate.

AllPrincessAnneshorses · 11/05/2024 23:29

CarolineFields · 11/05/2024 23:27

what dont you understand?

She's being polite. You are talking nonsense, and need to listen to her rather than double down.

LightsOnSparklingTowers · 11/05/2024 23:28

I am a genetics expert.

Grin
CarolineFields · 11/05/2024 23:28

(my degree was in genetics too)

OP posts:
CarolineFields · 11/05/2024 23:27

20HundredBillion · 11/05/2024 23:21

@CarolineFields, my degree was in genetics, but I'm afraid I don't recognise the language that you're using to talk about this.

what dont you understand?

OP posts:
AllPrincessAnneshorses · 11/05/2024 23:27

CarolineFields · 11/05/2024 21:47

It is not incorrect, it is correct, so if the DNA ancestry tests don't say that, then they are incomplete, aren't they - but incomplete is the least of their issues - they make no sense at all.

It's really not. The Vikings didn't get everywhere, albeit they were comparatively better travelled than most.

20HundredBillion · 11/05/2024 23:21

@CarolineFields, my degree was in genetics, but I'm afraid I don't recognise the language that you're using to talk about this.

AgeingDoc · 11/05/2024 23:20

I did mine out of curiosity because I started looking into my family history when I retired and got a bit of a shock to discover that a lot of things I had been told about my origins were seemingly not true. All relations in my parents' generation and older are dead now so I will never know how the misinformation arose and whether it was deliberate or not, but I thought I'd get my DNA tested just to see whether it linked to the country I thought my ancestors came from, or the one that my research pointed to. It agreed with my research, linking me to a specific area that matched birth and marriage records I had unearthed so I am as sure as I can be that everything matches and is correct.

CarolineFields · 11/05/2024 23:20

5YearsLeft · 11/05/2024 23:13

… Look, no name calling, and I’m just going to go ahead and say your math doesn’t math and leave it at that. There was both a pre and a post Viking period. People already lived in the UK before the Vikings. There was a whole Celtic civilisation that many British people are descended from without any Viking interference. Vikings CAME to the UK to sack abbeys that already existed (they started at Lindisfarne). Out of curiosity, who did you think built Stonehenge… the Vikings?

In fact, the three groups that connect Europeans don’t include Vikings. They precede Vikings by thousands of years: European Mesolithic hunter-gatherers, Anatolian Neolithic farmers, and early Bronze Age groups from the Steppe (2507 to 407 years before the Vikings).

But to add the science, only 10% of SCANDINAVIANS (where Vikings originated) have Viking DNA. And only 6% of those in the UK have Viking ancestry. Not even DNA, but ancestry (an even easier task).
https://www.xcode.life/dna-and-ancestry/physical-signs-of-viking-ancestry/

I don’t do my own math. I look things up. I recommend it because we can all make mistakes like this. What makes you less an object of empathy was that you just kept telling others THEY were wrong.

show me where my maths is wrong!

I am telling you I am right, because I know I am, and your post shows you have not understood anything I have said.

I'll try again.

Rounding all numbers to an average. 1000 years ago. Aprox 40 generations, given a generation time of 25 years. So you have 22 hundred billion ancestors at that point. But there is only 50 million people here. And 1 million of them are Vikings. So the average Viking is related to you 22 hundred million times.

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