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Original poster

To think these DNA ancestry tests make no sense

335 replies

CarolineFields · 11/05/2024 19:41

So you get back a score of 40% Nigerian. Meaning out of the tiny scrap of DNA tested - less than 0.1% -40% of that matches the average population in Nigeria. But if those Nigerians are tested, they won't come back as 100% Nigerian, so 40% of 0.1% matches people who are likely to be told they are 50% not Nigerian?

And if you are in Iceland when you have that test, you are told you are 40% Nigerian, but someone in Australia can be told they are 80% Icelandic due to being compared to you and you cohort?

OP posts:
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ChaosAndCrumbs · 12/05/2024 08:21

CarolineFields · 11/05/2024 22:21

It is not going to tell you your "heritage" though. It is going to tell you where some people who match some of the 0.1% of DNA looked at live. Whatever their heritage. They might have lived there 20 minutes. They might not even live there at all, and have lied on their form - they are not under any obligation to tell the truth

And I would argue that your "heritage" is what you experience in your life, not some biochemical in your cells.

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Just want to point out, as a fellow adoptee, that heritage is not purely experience. Genetics play a huge role in our lives - from susceptible disease to having some bearing on personality.

Ancestry DNA tests are not highly accurate, but dismissing someone’s need to find out more about themselves isn’t really ok. A lot of people know a lot more about their heritage or family than they think. It’s hard to contextualise experience without any knowledge of your own background - and some, like me have only scatterings of knowledge because social services lost my file. It can be a deep need to understand more about yourself. No, not every adoptee has this need, but many do and it isn’t reassuring to be told to dismiss it. We’re one of the most silenced groups - people are very uncomfortable that the loss of one family is still a loss, even when you have fantastic adopted parents; they’re uncomfortable with both forced removal of a child due to historic issues with mothering out of wedlock and the idea a parent could inflict harm on a child but still be loved by that child. We’re often told “You don’t need to be sad, you’ve got a new family now” when it’s normal to grieve and be sad as well as also loving our adoptive families.

Sorry, don’t want to derail anything, but felt it needed to be said as offhand comments like that can be hurtful for many. Heritage is complex, as is identity.

I haven’t done one of these tests, but considered it. I do know lots of adoptees or adults who experienced care as children and no longer have access to family to ask (or don’t feel able) who have. I think they’re known to be inconsistent in their accuracy at the moment, but when it’s a choice between that or nothing, lots of people choose testing.

Sixpence39 · 12/05/2024 08:15

CarolineFields · 12/05/2024 07:53

WE are ALL descended from Vikings - show me where my maths is wrong!

What this article means is that 1 gene rightly or wrongly identified as Viking has been found in 6% of their sample - but Vikings had more than 1 gene!

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You are proving yourself to be quite silly.

sashh · 12/05/2024 08:09

fuckssaaaaake · 12/05/2024 07:52

Can I de rail abit... I'm considering using this to find my birth father, don't have a name or anything but do I understand it right, if someone in his family has sent DNA then there's a slight chance he can be located? I can't get a name for reasons I won't mention and seemed like there would be no hope but someone mentioned this ancestry site to me yesterday then I see this thread this morning so thought would ask

Yes.

Well it can. Someone needs to have used the same company and then it will give you matches and say how close they are. It is luck.

My cousin was born in what was then euphemistically called, "the naughty girls' home" ie a mother and baby home in England. After giving birth she returned to Ireland and never told anyone she had been pregnant.

My cousin's birth father had only been in Ireland for a matter of months and then went on to work elsewhere in the world.

He had no idea my cousin existed.

NotDavidTennant · 12/05/2024 08:01

CarolineFields · 12/05/2024 07:48

ALL europeans have viking ancestory. I was just using Vikings as an example. Any genetic test that doesn't tell you that is wrong. Most of these tests are not telling people they have viking ancestory

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None of the sites will tell you if you do or don't have Viking ancestry as they're comparing you to modern day population groups. The adverts where they mention Viking ancestry are just a marketing gimmick.

When you actually do these tests there isn't a Viking category in the results and (marketing gimmicks aside) they don't claim to tell if you are of Viking descent or not.

VestibuleVirgin · 12/05/2024 07:56

CarolineFields · 12/05/2024 07:48

ALL europeans have viking ancestory. I was just using Vikings as an example. Any genetic test that doesn't tell you that is wrong. Most of these tests are not telling people they have viking ancestory

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Please provide peer-reviewed research links so I can expand my knowledge

Original poster
CarolineFields · 12/05/2024 07:56

A lot of this pop media science, and misconceptions is deliberately played on by these companies.

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VestibuleVirgin · 12/05/2024 07:54

TwoLeftSocksWithHoles · 12/05/2024 07:07

Possibly an overwhelming feeling to put on a horned helmet and get in a boat?

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🤣🤣 thank you! I needed that!

Original poster
CarolineFields · 12/05/2024 07:53

Sixpence39 · 12/05/2024 07:52

Only 6% of people in UK have viking DNA. https://metro.co.uk/2020/09/16/six-percent-of-uk-population-have-viking-dna-new-study-finds-13283006/

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WE are ALL descended from Vikings - show me where my maths is wrong!

What this article means is that 1 gene rightly or wrongly identified as Viking has been found in 6% of their sample - but Vikings had more than 1 gene!

OP posts:
Original poster
CarolineFields · 12/05/2024 07:53

fuckssaaaaake · 12/05/2024 07:52

Can I de rail abit... I'm considering using this to find my birth father, don't have a name or anything but do I understand it right, if someone in his family has sent DNA then there's a slight chance he can be located? I can't get a name for reasons I won't mention and seemed like there would be no hope but someone mentioned this ancestry site to me yesterday then I see this thread this morning so thought would ask

yes, this is all it can show you, where close relatives are - not what their ethnicity is, or where they came from

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Sixpence39 · 12/05/2024 07:52

CarolineFields · 11/05/2024 20:21

well, everyone in Europe North America, North Africa or Asia has Viking ancestors. Dont need any sort of DNA test to know that.

Only 6% of people in UK have viking DNA. https://metro.co.uk/2020/09/16/six-percent-of-uk-population-have-viking-dna-new-study-finds-13283006/

Six percent of UK population 'have Viking DNA', new study finds

Researchers who analysed 400 Viking skeletons say the history books need to be updated.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/09/16/six-percent-of-uk-population-have-viking-dna-new-study-finds-13283006

Original poster
CarolineFields · 12/05/2024 07:52

thesunday · 12/05/2024 01:01

This isn’t correct.

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yes it is, and noone has been able to say where any of my maths is wrong

OP posts:
fuckssaaaaake · 12/05/2024 07:52

Can I de rail abit... I'm considering using this to find my birth father, don't have a name or anything but do I understand it right, if someone in his family has sent DNA then there's a slight chance he can be located? I can't get a name for reasons I won't mention and seemed like there would be no hope but someone mentioned this ancestry site to me yesterday then I see this thread this morning so thought would ask

Original poster
CarolineFields · 12/05/2024 07:49

Gingerkittykat · 12/05/2024 03:00

There have only been approximately 117 billion people who have ever lived (including people alive now) so it is impossible to have had as many ancestors as you state.

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hence I say one person in the year 1000 is several million of your ancestors - ie has several million places on your ancestorial tree

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Original poster
CarolineFields · 12/05/2024 07:48

VestibuleVirgin · 11/05/2024 23:10

Oh, so sorry, @CarolineFields , you hadn't indicated you were an expert. How silly of me to attempt to contradict you by stating a few facts and arguing against your assertion that Europeans are decended from Vikings. Which apparently, is not what you said (did I mis-read that post?)
Next time, to prevent arguments, why not tell us your areas of expertise at the start.

ALL europeans have viking ancestory. I was just using Vikings as an example. Any genetic test that doesn't tell you that is wrong. Most of these tests are not telling people they have viking ancestory

OP posts:
Original poster
CarolineFields · 12/05/2024 07:45

Roastiesarethebestbit · 11/05/2024 23:46

So we are all descended from Viking’s because 40 generations ago we have more ancestors than people alive at the time? So doesn’t the same logic mean that we are descended from everyone alive at that time?

exactly - hence the well known trope that every English person is a direct descendent of Edward 1

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TwoLeftSocksWithHoles · 12/05/2024 07:39

CarolineFields · 12/05/2024 07:33

You don't seem to know much about Vikings, no Viking eve put on a horned helmet for a start - obviously this is a trivial detail, but it does speak to the massive ignorance about the whole topic of migration and genetics

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Yes, you're correct.

I was confusing them with those Indo-Persian warriors. I keep doing that. 🙄

Original poster
CarolineFields · 12/05/2024 07:36

NotDavidTennant · 12/05/2024 07:29

Sites like Ancestry don't sequence 100% of your genome. They only sequence a small proportion of your DNA, but they target the sites that are likely to be informative of ancestry.

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under 0.1%

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Original poster
CarolineFields · 12/05/2024 07:35

AllPrincessAnneshorses · 11/05/2024 23:27

It's really not. The Vikings didn't get everywhere, albeit they were comparatively better travelled than most.

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did I say they got everywhere or did I say they got to North America, North Africa, Asia and Europe?

OP posts:
Original poster
CarolineFields · 12/05/2024 07:33

TwoLeftSocksWithHoles · 12/05/2024 07:07

Possibly an overwhelming feeling to put on a horned helmet and get in a boat?

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You don't seem to know much about Vikings, no Viking eve put on a horned helmet for a start - obviously this is a trivial detail, but it does speak to the massive ignorance about the whole topic of migration and genetics

OP posts:
Original poster
CarolineFields · 12/05/2024 07:31

nozbottheblue · 12/05/2024 01:39

I'm trying to understand your original post, OP.
The 0.1% that you refer to: do you mean the sample that you give to Ancestry for testing is 0.1% of the total DNA in your body?
But surely as a genetics expert you know that your whole genome is contained in every cell of your body, so your results are 100% of your genome, not 0.1%.
If that isn't what you were referring to, please explain further.

I mean the DNA company is only looking at less than 0.1% of your genome

(and no, your whole genome is not necessarily contained in every cell of your body - if you have been pregnant some cells will contain part of the genome of your child, for example, which is how y chromosomes are found in women, if you have cancer, the genomes in those cells may be different, and you can have cancerous cells and never realise - in fact most will be destroyed by your immune system, and there are many other causes of mutations. and even if you have not, you still might not have the same genome in every cell of your body- there are many reasons some cells might be different)

OP posts:
NotDavidTennant · 12/05/2024 07:29

nozbottheblue · 12/05/2024 01:39

I'm trying to understand your original post, OP.
The 0.1% that you refer to: do you mean the sample that you give to Ancestry for testing is 0.1% of the total DNA in your body?
But surely as a genetics expert you know that your whole genome is contained in every cell of your body, so your results are 100% of your genome, not 0.1%.
If that isn't what you were referring to, please explain further.

Sites like Ancestry don't sequence 100% of your genome. They only sequence a small proportion of your DNA, but they target the sites that are likely to be informative of ancestry.

WifeOfMartyr · 12/05/2024 07:13

Mine was v accurate too. I know my dad's family migrated in the 1800s from a specific part of Norway. My ancestry test even got the specific part of Norway right. I was amazed.

I had a v diverse ancestry with lots of different continents on there. I told someone at work how great it was and they paid a load of cash and they were 99% British 😂

TwoLeftSocksWithHoles · 12/05/2024 07:07

VestibuleVirgin · 11/05/2024 21:06

How did you come to that (incorrect) conclusion?

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Possibly an overwhelming feeling to put on a horned helmet and get in a boat?

sashh · 12/05/2024 06:22

BIossomtoes · 11/05/2024 21:17

Mine was too. It was absolutely no surprise that half my genes are from the area around Roscommon and the other half are East Anglian. The 4% Norwegian was a bit of a surprise!

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That sounds like mine. Two circles around West Yorkshire and the same in one area of ireland.

Then some tiny bit from Finland.

The most boring profile ever. I agree about it being useful to connect, a cousin of my dad turned up on mine so we could fill in each other's family trees.

My cousin on the other hand, who is adopted was able to get in touch with her birth father and half siblings.

INeedToClingToSomething · 12/05/2024 05:29

Where are you getting that they only test 0.1% of your DNA?

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