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AIBU?

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Original poster

Refusing to sign passport

156 replies

Scoobie2911 · 11/05/2024 18:19

AIBU?
Bit of background: I met my best friend 8 years ago when we both started a new job together. My friend is from South Africa, her hubbie was born in UK but his family moved out to SA when he was a child. My friend and hubbie moved to UK about 10 years ago. We no longer work together and live in different towns but speak every day via Whatsapp. We are so alike and get on so well, we think the same way, have similar life experiences and we tell each other just about everything, she is the sister I never had.
She recently gained her UK citizenship, I supported her in this, gave her a character reference as I have for jobs etc. Now she is applying for a UK passport and sent her application to me to be a counter signatory BUT I had to refuse as I am not on the approved occupation list. My friend basically said we can just say I am one of the approved professionals as they don't check anyway but I said this would be fraud and I simply cannot do this. She has asked me to please post everything back to her and hasn't spoken to me since. Am I being unreasonable in refusing to commit fraud and signing her passport application?

OP posts:
IbizaToTheNorfolkBroads · 11/05/2024 21:44

They do check. I sign passports for friends/their children and I'd say 1 in 4 are checked.

The list of suggested occupations is people who traceable and registered elsewhere, to allow for cross checking. Chartered professionals is one category - not because accountants and surveyors etc are more trustworthy than other people, but because they will be registered with their professional body. Local government officers is another, because again, public sector workers are straightforward to cross check. Ditto people who volunteer for charities as mentioned.

@Op, if you don't feel comfortable doing it, then don't.

BashfulClam · 11/05/2024 21:33

My friend is a carer and signed my husbands application. Was approved no problem 12 years ago and was his first passport.

Nuttyputty · 11/05/2024 21:30

The only way it would be fraud is if you say you have a profession on the list which you don't.

Kitkat1523 · 11/05/2024 21:27

Zimunya · 11/05/2024 20:32

And they check. Contrary to the information provided to the OP by her friend, who said they don’t check.

Show quote history

So. What if they check? She wouldn’t be lying if she put her nhs occupation

ekk100 · 11/05/2024 21:24

For those saying the list is just a guide, it's different (much stricter) if it's the first passport of somebody who has just gained citizenship, which it sounds like the position your friend is in. You were right not to sign.

jaislapeche · 11/05/2024 21:24

As someone who has struggled to find counter-signatories in the past, I feel your friend’s pain and understand her frustration with you.

ChangeEmailAddress · 11/05/2024 21:22

You can sign it. You work for the NHS, no problems at all. Far more people can sign passports now, they just need to be able to 'find' and verify you - the NHS makes it easy. Just fill it in with your actual details, not a fake profession.

BusyMummy001 · 11/05/2024 21:14

If you genuinely do not feel you are on the authorised list, you were right not to sign it. Not sure that there are any consequences for doing so (unless you actively lie of course), but it would slow her application down - and require re submitting - when they check who you are. And they always do.

PoppyCherryDog · 11/05/2024 20:53

MonsteraMama · 11/05/2024 18:31

You should have just signed it, or called the helpline if you were unsure if you were eligible, they're dead helpful.

As long as you didn't lie about who you are or your profession you wouldn't be committing fraud - they'd decide if you're eligible or not and if not they'd just ask your friend to find someone else.

This is what I’d have probably done. I’d have not lied about my profession etc. and let the passport office decide.

MinnieGirl · 11/05/2024 20:41

Phone the passport office on Monday and ask if you are suitable to sign.

ZestofCoffee · 11/05/2024 20:36

No, she shouldn’t have put you in that position.

Zimunya · 11/05/2024 20:32

Kitkat1523 · 11/05/2024 19:48

And?

Show quote history

And they check. Contrary to the information provided to the OP by her friend, who said they don’t check.

Zimunya · 11/05/2024 20:30

bloodyplumbing · 11/05/2024 19:35

What's all this nonsense about fraud? Unless OP is lying about her profession how is it fraud?

From the opening post - “My friend basically said we can just say I am one of the approved professionals as they don't check anyway but I said this would be fraud and I simply cannot do this.” As you’ve noted yourself, putting false information on the form is fraud.

Hopingtobe4 · 11/05/2024 20:02

I signed one before and I was rang,I also got a lot of questions but think the main issue might have been thay my passport is irish and I signed a British form so they didn't have proof of my identity

dementedpixie · 11/05/2024 19:59

TiptoeThroughTheToadstools · 11/05/2024 19:45

@dedementedpixie I read that to mean both, not either or, otherwise why bother providing a list of accepted professions.

It literally says either on the page

OneThreadOnly · 11/05/2024 19:52

You can sign OP, just use your actual details, don’t lie.

Kitkat1523 · 11/05/2024 19:48

LoudSnoringDog · 11/05/2024 19:36

I was contacted to confirm my occupation and employer

And?

Kitkat1523 · 11/05/2024 19:47

Scoobie2911 · 11/05/2024 18:33

Update to answer questions.
I work in admin for the NHS.
I have no professional qualifications as such and have never been in trouble with the police so does that make me 'a person of good standing within my community'?

yes you can sign it

TerfTalking · 11/05/2024 19:46

I’ve signed them and I worked at BT at the time, granted I’d worked there decades but I wasn’t a “professional” with qualifications or accreditation.

TiptoeThroughTheToadstools · 11/05/2024 19:45

@dedementedpixie I read that to mean both, not either or, otherwise why bother providing a list of accepted professions.

LetsGoRoundTheRoundabout · 11/05/2024 19:40

I agree with what some others have suggested - tell her you’re happy to sign, but that you won’t lie.

If it gets spot checked and they don’t think you’re suitable they’ll just ask her for a different person.

LetsGoRoundTheRoundabout · 11/05/2024 19:39

bloodyplumbing · 11/05/2024 19:35

What's all this nonsense about fraud? Unless OP is lying about her profession how is it fraud?

Read the OP, the friend wanted her to lie about her profession.

Ineffable23 · 11/05/2024 19:36

AspiringChatBot · 11/05/2024 19:33

The countersignature portion of the form asks for your "profession, professional qualifications, or position in the community" and then the name and address of your employer. You could offer to fill it out truthfully, using your current job title and employer, warning her that it might be rejected and she might be better asking someone else who's a more clear fit. You would not get in any trouble if your countersignature was refused as ineligible, it would just delay her getting the passport and she'd have to resubmit with a different signature.

It's completely unreasonable of her to expect you to put any false information on the form, which is a criminal offence; there's a huge caution saying so in this section of the form.

This. I think working in the NHS probably makes you a person of good standing in your community but I wouldn't lie on the forms.

LoudSnoringDog · 11/05/2024 19:36

I was contacted to confirm my occupation and employer

bloodyplumbing · 11/05/2024 19:35

What's all this nonsense about fraud? Unless OP is lying about her profession how is it fraud?

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