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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Refusing to sign passport

156 replies

Scoobie2911 · 11/05/2024 18:19

AIBU?
Bit of background: I met my best friend 8 years ago when we both started a new job together. My friend is from South Africa, her hubbie was born in UK but his family moved out to SA when he was a child. My friend and hubbie moved to UK about 10 years ago. We no longer work together and live in different towns but speak every day via Whatsapp. We are so alike and get on so well, we think the same way, have similar life experiences and we tell each other just about everything, she is the sister I never had.
She recently gained her UK citizenship, I supported her in this, gave her a character reference as I have for jobs etc. Now she is applying for a UK passport and sent her application to me to be a counter signatory BUT I had to refuse as I am not on the approved occupation list. My friend basically said we can just say I am one of the approved professionals as they don't check anyway but I said this would be fraud and I simply cannot do this. She has asked me to please post everything back to her and hasn't spoken to me since. Am I being unreasonable in refusing to commit fraud and signing her passport application?

OP posts:
AdoraBell · 11/05/2024 23:30

YANBU OP

Zanatdy · 11/05/2024 23:28

I’ve been checked 3 times - out of a lot. But if you’re not comfortable she should accept that.

Winter2020 · 11/05/2024 23:21

Sounds like you will be fine to sign and give your profession of NHS Administrator.

OhYoko · 11/05/2024 23:19

Tbh I think you'd be absolutely fine under the "person of good standing" clause and that it's not worth losing a close friendship over. But I am a teacher and whilst I've only been checked up on once (when I must have signed scores of passports over the years) they do check. I was phoned on the school office number.

tridento · 11/05/2024 23:18

bloodyplumbing · 11/05/2024 19:35

What's all this nonsense about fraud? Unless OP is lying about her profession how is it fraud?

Read the op again

dementedpixie · 11/05/2024 23:02

@Bibbitybobbity70 if your ds had a child passport and is renewing to an adult one then they don't need a countersignature unless their appearance has changed drastically

Bibbitybobbity70 · 11/05/2024 22:58

YANBU I've signed passport photos but only those I know well. Just had issues getting someone to sign DS 1st adult passport, plenty of my friends who can sign but not necessarily seen him in last 2 yrs since he's been an adult but would not think of asking Anyone to falsely sign!
List of countersignatories is longer now but still can be difficult to find someone!

BusyMummy001 · 11/05/2024 22:51

Nail123 · 11/05/2024 22:01

Your countersignatory must either:

  • work in (or be retired from) a recognised profession
  • be ‘a person of good standing in their community’
She falls into the 2nd option
Show quote history

No, ‘a person of good standing in their community’ means a person who has standing within the community but is not listed in the ‘professions’ list - for example a vicar/bishop/Imam or, say, a town councillor or the mayor.

An NHS administrator - however wonderful they are in that role - is not, at an individual level, of sufficient standing in her community on the basis of that job.

OP was absolutely right NOT to sign, not least because the same section of the gov.uk web page states: It’s a criminal offence to make a false declaration on a passport application.

pinkstripeycat · 11/05/2024 22:34

Jegersur · 11/05/2024 18:35

You can absolutely sign it. Of course you can. You have a job in the NHS. It wouldn’t be fraud anyway even if you didn’t have such a job.

Edited

No OP can’t:

  1. Who can be a referee

This section tells His Majesty’s Passport Office staff about the criteria to be a referee (a person who can confirm a customer’s identity).
A referee must be:

  • a person of ‘good standing’ in the community and someone who
  • has personally known the customer for at least 2 years
  • works in a recognised profession (or who has retired from one)
TheYearOfSmallThings · 11/05/2024 22:27

Zone2NorthLondon · 11/05/2024 22:05

good standing? How is that measured or observed?
what makes an individual good standing?

Show quote history

They honestly aren't that fussy. I signed lots when an Irish passport allowed you to do them - the passport office would ring me at work (NHS) to confirm I was a real person, chat to me about how I knew the person, and that was all they needed.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 11/05/2024 22:24

You could have signed it without committing any fraud - they contact you to discuss it if they have any doubts, and if you have a UK password, a job and no criminal history your word will be good enough.

Nail123 · 11/05/2024 22:19

Zone2NorthLondon · 11/05/2024 22:05

good standing? How is that measured or observed?
what makes an individual good standing?

Show quote history

That’s for the passport office to decide, but surely someone who no criminal convictions would fall into that category.

NothingWithoutEffort · 11/05/2024 22:14

I think you can do it all by email now, we did this for my son's passport.

Zebedee999 · 11/05/2024 22:13

Scoobie2911 · 11/05/2024 18:19

AIBU?
Bit of background: I met my best friend 8 years ago when we both started a new job together. My friend is from South Africa, her hubbie was born in UK but his family moved out to SA when he was a child. My friend and hubbie moved to UK about 10 years ago. We no longer work together and live in different towns but speak every day via Whatsapp. We are so alike and get on so well, we think the same way, have similar life experiences and we tell each other just about everything, she is the sister I never had.
She recently gained her UK citizenship, I supported her in this, gave her a character reference as I have for jobs etc. Now she is applying for a UK passport and sent her application to me to be a counter signatory BUT I had to refuse as I am not on the approved occupation list. My friend basically said we can just say I am one of the approved professionals as they don't check anyway but I said this would be fraud and I simply cannot do this. She has asked me to please post everything back to her and hasn't spoken to me since. Am I being unreasonable in refusing to commit fraud and signing her passport application?

Being honest nowadays is a rare trait, well done you. So many on MN advocate shoplifting or drug taking or whatever. Well done you not to be coaxed into fraud despite lesser people would do so.

Bigsigh24 · 11/05/2024 22:12

I’ve signed for them, and I was rang by passport agency, all above board so all ok, but they do check x

Cornflakelover · 11/05/2024 22:07

Scoobie2911 · 11/05/2024 18:33

Update to answer questions.
I work in admin for the NHS.
I have no professional qualifications as such and have never been in trouble with the police so does that make me 'a person of good standing within my community'?

My son works in the NHS security department
he’s got an SIA badge and has signed passports for his friends

my neighbour also works for the NHS on reception at A&E and he signed my passport for me a few years ago

Zone2NorthLondon · 11/05/2024 22:05

Nail123 · 11/05/2024 22:01

Your countersignatory must either:

  • work in (or be retired from) a recognised profession
  • be ‘a person of good standing in their community’
She falls into the 2nd option
Show quote history

good standing? How is that measured or observed?
what makes an individual good standing?

Nail123 · 11/05/2024 22:03

Your countersignatory must either:

  • work in (or be retired from) a recognised profession
  • be ‘a person of good standing in their community’
I looked at this the other day as someone was asking. I assume as long as you don’t have any convictions you should be fine. What happens if your a convict on the approved list…can they sign?!
Bushtika · 11/05/2024 22:02

I am a teacher and was constantly being asked to sign applications for passports. I have been contacted at school to check that I am a teacher.

Nail123 · 11/05/2024 22:01

Zone2NorthLondon · 11/05/2024 21:58

you’re not on the approved list occupation so should decline. Be careful around her she’s trying to emotionally coerce you. That’s not a friend

Show quote history

Your countersignatory must either:

  • work in (or be retired from) a recognised profession
  • be ‘a person of good standing in their community’
She falls into the 2nd option
Zone2NorthLondon · 11/05/2024 21:58

Scoobie2911 · 11/05/2024 18:33

Update to answer questions.
I work in admin for the NHS.
I have no professional qualifications as such and have never been in trouble with the police so does that make me 'a person of good standing within my community'?

you’re not on the approved list occupation so should decline. Be careful around her she’s trying to emotionally coerce you. That’s not a friend

Countersigning passport applications and photos

Who can sign (countersign) passport photos and application forms and what they need to do

https://www.gov.uk/countersigning-passport-applications/accepted-occupations-for-countersignatories

Zimunya · 11/05/2024 21:54

Kitkat1523 · 11/05/2024 21:27

So. What if they check? She wouldn’t be lying if she put her nhs occupation

Show quote history

Absolutely. But the OP stated that her friend said that she should put one of the listed professions (not her own job), as “they never check”. So a poster said she had been contacted by HMPO when she signed for someone, and you said “And?”, and I was explaining why that was important in the circumstances. Sorry - this is convoluted, and I hope it makes sense!

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 11/05/2024 21:48

A friend of mine who had worked as a library assistant for some years signed passport forms more than once. She didnt lie about her job and it was never queried.

Scarydinosaurs · 11/05/2024 21:46

I had a friend sign it who owned her own business and it was refused and I had to go to London and get someone else to sign it (it was a massive faff and I was really annoyed) so tbh I don’t think YABU and I’d be worried that by signing it you would make things worse for your friend.

TeaGinandFags · 11/05/2024 21:46

If you're not convinced, phone the passport office or send them an email.

That way you will have an official answer.

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