Train fine

You went into a shop and bought four items but only scanned three at the checkout.

Most people would say you are a shoplifter or thief.

Same thing however unintended.

I was at Euston the other week and there were a dozen or more people - actual ticket inspectors and what looked like BTP - doing a mass inspection.

They were on the ramp between the main concourse and the platform. And they checked the ticket of every single person who got off the morning commuter train at that platform.

Well, the inspectors checked the tickets (they all had ticket scanners) and the BTP looked like they were observing / there for backup / preventing people from avoiding the inspectors.

And a couple of them were also ensuring that passengers of that particular train all went up the correct exit lane on the ramp and could not avoid having their tickets checked by sneaking across to an adjacent lane.

It seems fairly common sense that BTP would be present to support this kind of operation. Presume that this is the sort of operation that the OP's brother was caught by. And that they weren't just there for him, per se.

BTP do 100% attend for the sting days. They don't check tickets but they are there as a visible deterrent to kicking off with the revenue collectors. At larger stations near me they have also done joint operations with knife arches and ticket inspections.

The revenue collectors for our local operator do look more like PCSOs than revenue collectors so I can see how casual observers make that mistake

It’s not about intent though. He didn’t pay the fare he took. Can he honestly say he’s paid every single time in the past with no exceptions and there’s absolutely no chance he’s also forgotten in the past. Probably not partly because there’s a problem with open stations without access gates. But if there’s access gates they need to be manned which requires an investment. This is a valid way of train companies recouping some of that money.

Well yes. I also know that they do go to gatelines to sort out issues. Not because of the ticket itself but usually because there is an argument going on between the customer and rail staff. I've been there.

Rail staff don’t act in good faith and they seem to be very keen to fine whoever they can. They certainly treat you as “guilty until proven innocent”.

I was once on a train which waited on the same platform as another, both trains in front of each other. They were the same company and all the time you'd get people get on the wrong one, but often they’d realise their mistake in time, as someone would come around checking tickets before the train leaves.

But on one occasion, no one came around to check tickets while the train was waiting. They waited until it left the station, and a penalty fare officer came around checking tickets. Sure enough, someone had got on this train when they should have got on the one in front. They explained their mistake, the officer knew the other train was in front, but they still gave this man a £100 fine, simply for getting on the wrong train. He had the appropriate ticket for the other train.

I know there’ll be some jobsworth along to tell me that he deserved it etc, but handing out fines for honest mistakes is wrong. Especially when the same fines are coming from trains which seem to constantly be significantly delayed and cancelled.

Some of the attitudes of the workers are disgusting.

Nope. It's too outing to tell you how I know BUT I can categorically tell you that BTP nor any force would be checking tickets or coming out just for a ticking offence as it is a civil and not a criminal matter.

If you buy a ticket after the journey has ended (which he did, as he was at his final stop when he saw the police), or after departure then no, he didn't have a valid ticket for the remainder of the journey. Don't know why you keep saying things like that when you've obviously no idea what you're talking about.

He actually had two valid tickets - the one he had when he boarded the train and the one he bought to cover the remainder of the journey when the first valid ticket ran out. Hope he appeals.

So he didn’t have a valid ticket then!

in the past 10/15 years ago it didnt help that you could get a ticket off the conductor but at the time what happens if the conductor is not available when getting off the train ?

My daughter and all her friends got caught out last year coming back from the reading festival

They all bought return tickets , but trainline had 'split' the 2nd part
The 1st part was off peak the 2nd was for the time of train they originally booked

Wouldn't have been a problem except that they got the 1st train out of reading (6am) instead of the 8am train
So the spit fare 1st half was fine on off peak (it was bank holiday monday) any train, but the 2nd part was only valid for the 8am train
They got fined £50

I thought it was very unfair, as it was trainline that split the ticket, and they didn't realise it was a different type of ticket that wasn't really visible on the app. They assumed it was all any train like the 1st half

So they had paid but made a simple error by thinking the 2nd part of the spit ticket covered them for the journey like the 1st half did
Inspector was very rude
But lesson learnt the hard way

The revenue staff would have heard every excuse going. Without being mind readers how can they possibly distinguish between the genuine reasons & those who were intentionally trying to evade their fare. There is an appeals process in place. If your brother has evidence of all the correct journeys he’s made, he may have grounds for appeal. There was a big exercise at Oxford Station a few weeks ago with a similar set up to what you described with BTP & security in attendance.

Someone else has already mentioned about BTP but also not all railway companies are run by private companies anymore.

They were correct to fine him, but if they were aggressive in their behaviour, especially with children present, that's not ok. But I'm not sure he can do much about it unless he got the names of the officers involved? Then he could give some informal feedback around how his children felt and how they could and should have modified their approach. But equally, he could have made the decision to just accept it rather than argue yo avoid a confrontation that he was never likely to win. However hindsight is a wonderful thing, and I'm sure he was just trying to tell his side of the story
A bit rubbish, but not much can do I don't think unfortunately

Same as buying a parking ticket when you get back to your car and realise wardens are about. Tough luck basically.

It can. He can appeal. And he should.

It's really annoying that this happened. But see it as getting penalised for a mistake, e.g. not realising there is a parking restriction. It occasionally happens to all of us. There's no way to tell who purposely tried to get out of paying and who made a mistake. Not worth getting angry or stressed about.

Yes they do. It's the kind of thing I do all the time. See also parking in a time limited car park and forgetting to come back after 1.5 hours. Getting on a train going in the wrong direction. Going down the motorway in the wrong direction.

Doing something you routinely do but slightly different to normal is a really easy way to make mistakes. Especially when you have kids.

If it was a train station it was more than likely the British Transport Police, who are paid for by yhr rail company's not the public purse.

Nope your brother fucked up and you think he should get treated differently to everyone else, and now you are moaning saying he's a good person never done it before. Most people who fuck up deal with with it and accept they are wrong.

Don't ask if you are unreasonable of you don't like the answers you are going to get.

This happened to husband not long ago, he was running late for train and forgot to buy his usual online ticket until he was on the train and he got a fine because he was on the train when he bought it.