To think the level of state involvement many posters expect is bonkers?

@Againname
I made the point about social housing on another thread but it is worth making it again.

The number of immigrant workers into this country to fill key roles is growing. In 2023 net migration into this country was 672,000. How long can the UK sustain 672,000 new workers ( and rising ) coming into the UK and needing homes each year? The housing crisis will get worse and worse. I am not critical of migrant workers. They are coming here to fill vacancies and of course deserve proper housing.
Rising divorce numbers and increasing numbers of single parents also means separated parents need two houses rather than one. It too puts pressure on housing.*
There is more pressure on housing than there has ever been.
A quick Google tells me that 231,100 new homes were built in 2023 in the UK. Notice the 400,000 shortfall in new homes compared to net migration numbers. *
No UK Government of any political group can afford to support the building of nearly 700,000 new homes each year. Equivalent to a city the size of Sheffield or Cardiff. You simply cannot have a new city every year for the foreseeable future. It is not feasible and not going to happen so the shortfall in housing is going to grow.
Any politician who pretends otherwise is doing just that, pretending.
There is no money to pay for, no intention and no possibility of 700,000 new houses, social or otherwise, being built in the UK every year.

People are going to have to move out of large, expensive southern cities to less expensive places so that they can afford to live.

Mass displacement simply moves and spreads the problem elsewhere, adding pressure on housing and other public services in other areas.

How many threads have there been on here with people upset about 'blow ins' adding pressure on housing and services?

There's also not enough jobs everywhere else for large numbers of displaced incomers. Especially as a lot of cheaper housing areas are cheaper because of lack of job opportunities.

Unless government funding is provided for a huge scheme for social housing this can never improve. Perhaps this is where all the money for so-called Smart Motorways and HS2 should have gone rather than being wasted.

I agree.

Goodnight @MistressoftheDarkSide and wishing you well for tomorrow xx

There's some depressing views on this thread but you and some of the other posters (sorry not tagging every one of you but wishing you all well too) make me think it's worth not completely losing faith in humanity!

Regarding the cost of building more social housing.
A lot of people need benefits because of lack of SH. Also, housing isn't an issue that exists in isolation. For example, housing issues massively affect health (and cost the NHS loads).

It is not the job of us, the taxpayers, to provide anybody in this country with a permanent home of their own. That is up to them.

Everyone is a taxpayer, and investing in decent SH is one of the best investments we could do.

No permanent homes for anyone not wealthy enough to afford one? Unstable lives create and increase social problems. Then people wonder why the NHS, social care, police, and the benefits system cost so much, and why there's a mental health crisis.

Also why our towns, cities, and villages are declining, and why there's more state dependancy (large transient populations means loss of community and support).

Whatever anyone thinks about 'feckless' parents, you can't want to see homeless children?

And what about disabled people? Nobody chooses to be disabled. People fleeing DV?

People in low paid jobs? Everyone can't all get higher paid work because the lower paid jobs still need doing.

The staying in larger houses thing. Lots of older and disabled people need extra space for carers or medical equipment.

The big thing though is there's not enough smaller homes, and the current downsizing policy unfairly penalises childfree people (who are not only taxpayers but often use less public services. For example, schools and maternity care). It's linked too to the issues discussed in this thread of 'feckless' parents, because the current system punishes the childfree.

And i repeat. L and Q is a housing association!

https://www.theguardian.com/money/article/2024/may/13/lq-has-raised-my-flats-service-charge-by-41-i-cant-afford-it

Good luck with the flat @MistressoftheDarkSide and with everything else going on too

Good luck from me too @MistressoftheDarkSide . Hopefully you will soon be settled in your new flat with your cat. I hope your dad gets settled somewhere too.

Sweet dreams, I hope you sleep well @MistressoftheDarkSide I have my fingers crossed that it goes well for you and your Dad tomorrow.
And never give up hope, it's sometimes the only shining beacon in the black abyss that is threatening to consume us all.
Take care and good night.

Thank you ❤️

@ChishiyaBat @Againname

Your kindness is much appreciated. As are your posts on here. Talking about this stuff and sharing the reality of life for people at the thin end of the wedge is so important I think.

As I've got older and wiser (?) I've come to understand life is never black and white and standing in judgement solves nothing.

The current zeitgeist is division, polarisation and atomistic, yet no man is an island. The only thing left in Pandora's box was hope. It's so tempting to give up, yet apparently I can't. If I go down, it'll be fighting, for myself and anyone else who needs it.

I wish you both well. And all the other posters trying to explain why some of the proposed solutions to artificially engineered social problems are untenable if we want to retain humanity.

Have to be up early to get my Dad to the housing office as well tomorrow. He's had to separate from my mentally unwell SM for his own well-being. He can't come with me as it's too far from his GP surgery and too small. The next few weeks are going to be fraught..... ah well. We'll get there.

Sweet dreams xxx

@MistressoftheDarkSide I really hope you get the flat and everything else works out as well as it can in the circumstances for you

It's definitely a massive battle nowadays to get help. Which is not only cruel but also false economy as people end up in worse circumstances, their heath's affected (costing the NHS), and people end up more state dependant and for longer.

Your example. So many other people's too. Like the woman whose post I saw yesterday. She's fleeing DV with her DC and might have to give up her job (so be state dependant) because the council and housing association told her there's no housing available for a transfer.

Loads of other people in circumstances like yours and hers, who need decent housing to avoid or reduce state dependancy.

The cost of building more social housing will be expensive initially but not doing it is more expensive in the end. It's not only about housing related benefits costs of not having social housing. The shortage of SH has a knock on cost on other services. NHS, social care, and so much else.

I'm very sorry that you are in a bad place, I hope you are ok and you get yourself sorted! You take the all the time and resources you need to get yourself back on track! I also hope your Father is ok too. Look after yourself and your parents.

All the people on here who view anyone on benefits as unworthy of any help regardless of situation are narrow minded fools, who are lucky to never have been in a situation where they need help themselves. They need to count themselves lucky! What do I know though i'm just a feckless scrounger or "black hole" who needs to take responsibilty for myself😂.

@Noras Underclass? What the fuck?! Who do you mean by that?

I'm currently state dependent. It's complicated. Very very complicated. But I'm confident that if I can secure a flat I've been offered - I can move in next Monday if all goes to plan - my dependency will be short term. 6 months to a year perhaps, to sort out debts from my collapsed business, get some counselling for complicated grief due to suddenly being widowed two years ago, and keep half an eye on my elderly parents who ate both in poor health - one mental, the other physically.... as I say, it's very very complicated.

So I know about asking the state / local council / social care for assistance. I know about bureaucracy. And I'm experiencing in real time the effects of bloated bureaucracy, lack of communication, poor record keeping and being passed around like a hot potato both on my own account and as advocate for my parents who are in their 80s.

I have dealt with about 8 different people in housing. I have dealt with dozens of doctors, nurses, HCPs and social workers with regard to my parents. I have had to provide the same information over and over again. We are just trying to stabilise ourselves and be a minimal strain on the state, also get out from under its bloody eye and in a position where we can reclaim "personal responsibility".

We are deep in "shit happens" territory. Multiple shit, all at the same time.that is exhausting on every level. I can't even trust myself to have one drink, because if I start, I might not stop.

So. There you have it. I'm biased. I'm also lucky that I'm articulate, with no dependents (other than my cat) and in real terms have nothing much left to lose - unless my Dad's bunch of health issues that have steadily worsened over 5 months is his lymphoma kicking off again. Or heart problems. Or something else. We'll find out tomorrow hopefully as he's been summoned to the GP unexpectedly after a raft if tests last week. He's 84. He's a nuclear test Veteran, but we mustn't attach any significance to that because radiation from UK tests in Austealua us magical, and doesn't impact health The MOD have spent millions disputing it in court.

So as the state has and continues to regularly shaft me and mine, (because there's more, much more) I will take what I need from it to get out from under it.

And I'll fight for every other fucker being shafted too, because like many posting here, it's soul destroying in the extreme. And it shouldn't be this way.

Well I won't complain, because that is just pure hyperbole which is rather reminiscent of a particular ideology.

I lived in a bedsit when young. It was fine because I knew it was temporary and because I was young, I was out most nights anyway.

This.

Bedsits should be temp thing. For students, or contract workers....not a way of living.

Personally, I don't think they should exist at all. A tiny room that is your bedroom/lounge/kitchen/WFH space all at once, with a bathroom you share with bicycles... no thanks.

@Againname
"Sadly I think that the dream of building new, properly planned, built and run mixed estates like this would probably not be viable for any local authority today, either in terms of building or running costs."
I think it would be cheaper than not doing it. Doesn't temporary accommodation cost loads of money? Also loads of people need benefits for private rentals even if they're working. Housing issues also cost the NHS and other services loads.
I agree with the principle of what your are saying, but there is quite simply not any public entity that could even remotely afford it. Our estate was built by the Greater London Council and during the building they went bust. And it isn't just the bricks and mortar, the cost of maintaining any estate has become stupendously high. All property owners here own a share of the freehold but, as an example, a four bedroomed flat has a service charge of more than £5k p.a., and that is obviously without the cost of financing the land purchase and the build. Can this be paid in addition to all the other benefits that a family may need?
Personally I think that social housing cannot now be provided for people unless they are in dire need and nobody should stay in social housing for longer than they absolutely have to, nor in property is larger than they need. It is not the job of us, the taxpayers, to provide anybody in this country with a permanent home of their own. That is up to them.
People are going to have to move out of large, expensive southern cities to less expensive places so that they can afford to live. I'm not saying that this is right, just that it is what has to happen. It will become less and less tenable for "normal" people to live in London as many key workers will not be able to live close enough to work here. Schools and the NHS already have recruitment problems and it will only get worse.
Unless government funding is provided for a huge scheme for social housing this can never improve. Perhaps this is where all the money for so-called Smart Motorways and HS2 should have gone rather than being wasted.

So we. Had surestart. So if it was so helpful in educating people then why are the next generation down more ignorant than before then? Surestart was abouth when today's younger parents were kids so surely THEIR parents should've learned stuff to pass on if it works

Phew. I agree.

Imagine living in a bedsit in your fifties and older. Bloody awful. You can never have people round for a meal or drinks.
And if a bedsit is fine for childless people, why not people with adult children?

I mean Sure Start, early intervention with problematic use of alcohol and drugs, early help with mental health issues.

What do you mean by "support and intervention"? Because there seems to be two versions on this thread, and one is very sinister!

@JenniferBooth I just read through the thread you posted a few pages back.
Fucking hell, what a way to lose any sort of faith in our fellow person. It is "your fault" for still being in a cramped flat for decades with a disabled mid 70s DH who sleeps on the sofa. Fucking hell, my cousin slept on his parent's sofa, and that bumped him up the list for social housing. He now had a new build flat.

And the PP who said that childless single people would be fine in a bedsit..... I know single and childless men in their 70s who are in HMOs. They have problems with alcohol because they spend all day in the pub instead of in a tiny sweatbox.

I think people matter.
But simply financially early intervention and support makes sense.