To think the level of state involvement many posters expect is bonkers?

But was he technically entitled to it as the father of a disabled child, or did he actually need it, as it doesn’t sound like he did anything to support her?

there’s a big difference

@ShyPoet
i don’t know if that’s true, because I would need to look at all of the other countries and their systems and it’s quite hard from an outside perspective to even know where to start.

I don’t think it’s that black and white though. I agree that it’s a false economy cutting expenditure on support services and then paying people directly.

Our Child Development and Neurodisability Team have expertise in the assessment, diagnosis and management of cerebral palsy. We work with children and their families from Sheffield and beyond to deliver therapy that maximises potential and minimises functional disability.
Cerebral palsy is an umbrella term used to describe a group of conditions that affect movement, posture and co-ordination. It can affect other areas of functioning as well including vision, hearing, speech and learning.
Children with cerebral palsy may have difficulties from birth or may have slow development of motor and other skills. A diagnosis may not be possible until the child is 2-3 years old depending on the individual child’s progress.
We have a range of specialists in our team, including specialist developmental and neurodisability consultants, physiotherapists, occupational therapists and speech and feeding therapists. We work closely with other specialists in the Trust to support children with cerebral palsy and offer a full service from birth to adolescence.

How old is she exactly? Is she not under child development clinic?

She hasn't seen a Dr or anyone else other than the orthotics dept since diagnosis. We are working in the dark with her to be honest.

There’s a lot of social Josip g that is sublet and the ex tenant / landlord makes a fortune - some are turned in to Air B&Bs and raise a high price especially round London.

Cleary these properties aren’t being let for their intended purpose.

Government need to employ people to sort this out.

I do think that the government gets into some weird parts of people's lives but some posters ITT are really sink or swim.

I mostly just think we should be able to smoke inside, take drugs and enjoy ribena.

I'm not about gutting the NHS or removing essential safety nets.

Govt can build roads, infrastructure etc. They should devolve health.

I think teaching kids essential life skills should probably be done at school, if kids aren't getting their teeth brushed then someone needs to help them do it, if their parents are failing them. Improving the lives of the youth benefits everyone. If you don't want to be involved in any pastoral care at all I wonder why you're a teacher.

He was entitled to the carers allowance though, I don't know how that affects uc though, all I know is my daughter is now paying back his debt which is totally and utterly unfair!

That is true, it's still better than a standard 16 hour contract on nmw though.

There are extra costs though. Travel to Hospital appointments, shoes to fit over her othotic boot that cost a fortune compared to regular toddler footwear are just two extra costs I can think of right now.

You don't need a qualified/experienced dentist to give "advice" on brushing teeth!

Yep. Often also very high crime rates. Without support in place, crime increases.

We ve record numbers of people IN work.

Yes. Other threads have discussed this. There's actually not enough jobs for everyone. More people out of work than there are total job vacancies.

The expectation from the entitled to be automatically be given council housing, subsidised childcare, free social care and a whole lot more is to me quite staggering.

Haven't you seen the examples in this thread of false economy? People who, if they had council housing or access to timely and effective support (NHS, social care, benefits) would need less from the state and or need state help for shorter periods of time.

PP have given examples of their own circumstances where this would be the case. There's also the woman on another thread who's fleeing DV with her child. Because of the lack of council housing, she might have to go to a refuge and give up her job and go on benefits. Talk about false economy (and cruel).

Then there's people waiting ages on NHS lists, who end up to unwell to work because their health has deteriorated so much by the time they're seen.

Or people in low paid jobs (that someone has to do) who need benefits because of the lack of council housing and so have housing costs their wages don't meet.

With childcare, although not applicable to single parents like your mum, nowadays housing costs mean it's less affordable to be a SAHP and both parents have to work. There were also a lot of publicly funded nurseries and similar in the 70s, so there was childcare.

Very different from when I was growing up, one of three children, in a one parent family in the 70's. She budgeted, scrimped and saved. There was no real handouts from the government or anyone else for my mother except from her best friend and my grandparents.

The lack of SH today means that would be less possible. The support from her best friend and your grandparents. People are being told to move away from family, friends, and support systems for cheaper housing (despite that just adding housing pressure elsewhere). There's less community help today because communities are being split up.

Also in the 70's a much higher percentage of people had council housing, and private rentals were rent capped. Squatting was legal then too. There were also more and better public services.

@Giraffesandbottoms They die or end up living on the street barely surviving through charity.

My mother was a single mother in the late sixties whose family had cut her off. She had to manage. We lived in slums, it was Dickensian. It was less than ideal. I want better for children today.

That’s the thing - I do wonder how much more people would bother to actually push themselves out of a shitty life if there was more incentive. I mean it takes a lot of grit, absolutely, but if you’ve got money for booze, fags and a PlayStation and you’ve got your flat then why would you? And people can’t be happy like that - it’s not healthy and it’s just ruining someone’s own life.

what do people do in countries who don’t have this infrastructure in place?

hats off to your mother.

Of course dentists should be readily available, absolutely. But before my dentist shut down they had started taking deposits because of how many people just didn’t show up. That’s the issue - everyone wants the systems in place but too many entitled people abuse the systems and then it makes them impossible to run. You see threads on here all the time where the OP has an issue that pharmacies are now able to deal with and they STILL clog up the GP rather than go elsewhere.

I just despair at everything tbh. I can’t see a way out of this entire mess that’s going on around me - no one seems to have any plans or ideas, there is so much govt money wasted on crap and neither party has any actual sensible ideas about anything. Meanwhile children just aren’t being looked after.

i get your point re it being hard if you’re struggling to cope, but how many people do have children whilst struggling to cope? Is that morally alright? What about the children?

I suggested during Covid on one thread that the govt start putting out basic infomercial type videos every week at 6pm for people who just didn’t understand/claimed not to understand basic hygiene. Things like that are pretty easy to organise / yes it’s a bit nanny state-ish but at least it would get through to people who have the will to try.

think the days of people thinking having DC will get them a council house are long gone but still, many people do have kids that they can't afford to support and do rely on the state to do so.

I don't think it's exactly that people have kids to get council housing (although it does protect against street homelessness, not that temporary accommodation is often much better). I've had a really busy day and I'm tired so I don't think I can explain what I want to say properly (even to myself).

Often the child is unplanned but other times, especially for people from disadvantaged backgrounds or communities, having children is sometimes the only realistic aspiration. To achieve a feeling of purpose in life and a sense of self worth (especially as society does often negatively judge the childless and the childfree).

Also, every circumstance is different. Unplanned life events happen. Lots of families support their kids fine but then something happens. Illness, bereavement, job loss, DV, one parent disappearing and not paying child support.

This below from a PP
the problem is that she’s had 6 children and is living off the state

If there were good and better funded public services, support schemes, and opportunities (work, education, and training), and SH, people would have more options and more chance to support themselves and their children.

Improve the child support system too.

Also although not directly related, SH needs to include the childfree. They're taxpayers and have equal need and right to decent homes.

The bedroom tax thing. Possibly could encourage people to have more children to avoid it? Perhaps not but it's still an unhelpful policy. Massively negatively affected the childfree, disabled, and older people. Downsizers get high priority for smaller properties (which the childfree need), and older and disabled people often need extra space so downsizing isn't practical.

@ShyPoet
No offence but the reality is my mother really struggled to raise her children when left alone, without the benefits from government that are available today and she just had to manage and only could with help from best friend and grandparents. Not 'straw manning'...🤷🏼‍♀️, only stating fact.

And this is common sense. Surely I am not the only mum when life has been hectic who has put off going to the Dr because life is too hectic to deal with one more thing?
When people are disadvantaged and struggling to cope with everyday life, you need to make it easy for them to get medical help they need. Instead we make it very difficult. It took a lot of work for me to find an NHS dentist who would see us after the pandemic (we were all thrown off previous dentist list even though they were only seeing emergency patients). I had to ring 111 and ring so many dentists they suggested. Someone struggling to cope may intend to do that, and then never get round to it.

as a Pp said, quite rightly - those who really need dentist appts are the least likely to be trying to get them. Sad but true.

it’s extremely easy to google tooth brushing.

@Samlewis96 I think the issue is more complex. People used to be able to take their kids for free to NHS dentists. That is not always the case now as it is so hard to get on a list.
When parents have problems getting their child to let them brush their teeth, they have no one to ask for advice. And some parents just give up or blame it on SEN. It is far more complex than just buying a toothbrush.

@Rudicoolcat Total straw manning there. Have a rant though about things that simply are not true.

This!

Then people wonder why there's more state dependancy.

This suggestion below from a PP...
people genuinely need to work in central London and need social housing they should have first call on it.

This idea ignores that London has established communities like everywhere else, including older and disabled people. Also the London housing problem isn't confined to central London. It's a problem across London.

Not only London either. It's beginning to happen elsewhere too. Manchester, Birmingham, and other places including rural areas.

People think vulnerable groups should be displaced away from their families and support systems??

I also doubt the areas they're displaced to will be so happy about extra pressure on local social care and housing and other support services.

A PP linked high immigration to adding to housing pressures and lowering wages. Immigration is a difficult debate and there's various different reasons why people come here. Not all are low waged. One of my neighbours came here a couple of years ago and is in a relatively highly paid job and has a mortgage.

However the PP's post could apply equally to displaced Londoners (and people from other parts of the UK where housing has been allowed to become unaffordable).

What do people think happens if there's mass displacement from London, the SE, and other unaffordable housing areas? How many threads have there been on MN from people upset about 'blow ins' adding pressure on local housing, jobs, and public services?

Mass displacement just moves the problem elsewhere. Housing becomes more unaffordable there too, and it increases competition for jobs (especially as many of the cheaper housing areas are cheaper because of limited job opportunities and jobs that are available are often mostly low paid)

The expectation from the entitled to be automatically be given council housing, subsidised childcare, free social care and a whole lot more is to me quite staggering.

I agree with other PP who can see that no government, whether it is Tory or Labour can pay for it all for everyone.

It seems knowledge about entitlements is clear but some refuse to acknowledge nor accept their responsibilities.

Very different from when I was growing up, one of three children, in a one parent family in the 70's. She budgeted, scrimped and saved. There was no real handouts from the government or anyone else for my mother except from her best friend and my grandparents.

But at school we did get the free (cold/tepid/warm/sour) milk...🥛🤮

The point is the people who are taught to brush their bloody kids teeth and other basics are the parents of the ( now) adults who apparently don't know how to do these things and therefore don't do them for their own kids. Why don't they know if their own parents were taught by surestart? Knowledge should've been passed down

.And what I remember from the surestart scheme it was rarely the people who needed to attend these classes etc that did even back then. It was parents with a bit of aspiration who took advantage of the stuff available for their kids and the ones who needed help didn't get involved