To think the level of state involvement many posters expect is bonkers?

Totally agree OP. Well said

Good to see someone with a grasp of why the NHS was forced into existence. The ones with the inherited power realised the returning soldiers would have easily been organised and a revolution would wipe out their inherited wealth and power. The feckless (google the history of the demonisation of the poor) of the past are the current benefit scroungers and immigrants so beloved of some of our newspapers.

Yes it's the nanny state that has been burgeoning for the last 3 decades or so.
Morbidly obese? Not my fault. The NHS should fix it.
Me and dope smoking fella been sofa surfing for the last 8 months. I'm 3 months pregnant. Gimme a council house..
Haven't worked for 15 years cos I have a bad back. Got 7 kids in a 3 bed council house. Wife's pregnant again. Gimme a 5 bedroom house. .thes kind of stories appear on social media every day of the week completely with the compo faces and the requisite old sofa dumped in the front garden.

I don't think what I'm saying is at odds with what you're saying

I completely agree!
Teachers are there to... teach, not coparent
SEN excluded where there would be a TA to provide help,
Some parents don't think it's important to send DC clean and dry( toilet wise)
Toothbrushes and paste are cheap enough and it was part of my DC' routine along with handwashing before meals
I know most parents work now, but that's an excuse not to teach DC the basics

According to recent research undertaken by StemProtect.co.uk, this isn’t happening, with findings suggesting that less than one-third of children are in fact brushing their teeth regularly enough.

This is exacerbated by an alarming number of parents who claimed not to know how long their children were brushing their teeth for – with around eight in ten parents unaware how long their children were spending brushing their teeth.

‘I’m sure there’s a pretty big overlap between those not paying tax and those expecting teachers to potty train their kids’

😂 I’m a betting woman and I’d bet on that..

It’s lumbering under complex elderly care. Check out those projections for hip replacements you mentioned.

‘ We are wealthier than ever as a nation in terms of real terms gdp. Tax take is higher than ever.

How were previous governments magically able to do more than this one given those two facts?’

Because there are ever increasing demands on the income from tax. The old age pension was originally envisaged as supporting people for eighteen months after retirement! Many conditions which killed people are now survivable (but not curable to the extent of restoring the sufferer to a tax producing condition). Many children who died at or soon after birth are now able to live , but again still requiring care , not producing a surplus. This is not a value judgement, just an economic fact. You can think what you like about it.

Added to these stresses is the increase in population from immigration, which involves educating, providing healthcare, providing accommodation etc to a large number of people who are not immediately generating contributions to the Exchequer. The infrastructure bequeathed by the Victorians is groaning under the increase, and is not, cannot be sufficiently updated . This also contributes to the negative effect on tax derived income.

I have lived in Two European countries, and I have friends in two others. They report very similar stresses, although the larger one benefits from having more usuable space, so can allow more private housing to be built, and has more local food production.

Ah yes, the guardian. Nice and unbiased.

its to do with shitty diets and parents not brushing / which the dentist appts would point out. A small child’s dentist appt is just a dentist checking the teeth are cleaned properly. That’s it.

it’s easy to blame the govt but a friend of mine is a prep school teacher and in a class of 18 only 2 put their hands up to say they brushed 2 x a day.

on here you get plenty and on Instagram who think letting their child brush themselves at 4/5 is fine.

people don’t have time to bother parenting as everyone is working. Or they don’t work and cba.

So all your questions focus on the calculation of entitlement. For me it isn't about that. It's about being decent - don't grab more than you need, so there's enough to go round. And if it's couched that way, most people will try not to be grabby.

It isn't just health care. Education is just as bad imo.

That actually health provision is kind of shit, and it's not simply because someone less deserving got there first

But that’s the issue. Lots of people aren’t tax payers. Or if they are they take out plenty and don’t end up net contributing. And I’m sure there’s a pretty big overlap between those not paying tax and those expecting teachers to potty train their kids.

https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/oct/05/starmer-wants-supervised-toothbrushing-in-englands-primary-schools?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17154381503350&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fsociety%2F2023%2Foct%2F05%2Fstarmer-wants-supervised-toothbrushing-in-englands-primary-schools

For the tooth brushing frothers.

This initiative is a suggestion by a political party leader to counteract the dire state of dental health care provision first and foremost, not the result of "lazy parent " demands.

Always good to be fully informed before you start a debate I find.

What game is up?

The projection of hip replacements is eye watering, look at 2030 projections and for knees too

The NHS didn’t start with that in place or all the level of other elderly complex care

I literally said in my post ' I support a large state with higher taxes to support this'. So tax payers would. All families would benefit directly as it would be universal provision and everyone one benefit indirectly by having a more equal society with less deprivation.

It would never really be in the interests of the government to actually restrict the undeserving from getting health care because once we stop treating junkies and people are still scratching their heads wondering where their new hip is and the game will be up.

Currently you can blame the junkie, and hate them accordingly, rather than looking at what the actual problem is.

That’s right. But of course a lot of the people who take the most give the least. People don’t pay tax if they earn under £12k, if they have a job at all. State benefits are so generous often there’s ‘no point’ in working at all. How can that be right?

As always most tax is paid by the higher rate tax payers. When they’ve had enough, who is going to pay the taxes to fund everything?

Wouldn't dream about caring for or living with my abusive (silent generation) parents, although in another country.
Let "someone else" do that.

What if the imaginary person in the example doesn't have kids, has never claimed UC or other benefits, will never claim a state pension but still contributes to all of those pots as a tax payer? Where's the line for "their fair share" in that instance? Do they get more health care because they are taking less of other resources? And why are you focussed only on health care when you could apply that same principle of "more than their fair share" to any number of situations?

Bloody well done Mrs Scott.

The level of entitlement in this country is unbelievable. People think they ‘deserve’ everything, that they are ‘entitled’ to everything. Makes me feel sick actually. Labour will only encourage this way of thinking of course.

I don’t think it’s magic. One was deferring the billions in off gov PFI which we’re still paying for. And all the support through out the pandemic and topping up bank accounts recently

The other factor is aging population which is hitting us harder than any time before, so deferring that taxpayer debt was madness

Plus we have very high state dependency, any higher and I think it’ll be very hard for the remaining tax contributors

I believe It's too late by school. Serious interventions need to start at birth.

I have way too many real life stories of entitled cf parents and non parent adults who live the life of the entitled.
Our social services funding began to help those people who were truly living in dire straits. Illness, work injuries, death of main breadwinner etc. and it is absolutely right that it is there now for people, families and children who need it. My DGF back in 1920s campaigned and fought for sick pay especially after work related injuries, he was a miner. Back then there was literally nothing, no money if your DH was killed in an accident, or support. Obviously things have moved on a lot since then, thank God but the system that was set up to help the most vulnerable is being abused.
I know too many people who know and milk the system. It breaks my heart and makes me mad in equal measure.
And don’t get me started on cf social system milkers who talk about ‘getting paid’ and those who say teachers, police, nurses etc are ‘public servants’
“So I’m the public and you’re my servant!” I have heard this too 😤
It’s a big mess and my DGF will be turning in his grave 😔