To think the level of state involvement many posters expect is bonkers?

First of all I can't imagine there are many six year old who don't t have some type of medical issue or developmemtal delay willingly going to school.in nappies even if they have never been toilet trained a typical six year old would be very aware that most kids are not in nappies and also not want to be in them
Regarding whose job it is though to change children who are wet and or soiled ,somebody needs to do.it ,according to the ERIC guidelines knowingly leaving a child wet and or soiled. Is tantamount to neglect .

Absolutely, are people saying 'parents who won't feed, clothe, or care for their children appropriately should just keep having money chucked at them, in the hope that they eventually will?'

This is disgraceful and not her job.

But the issue is the huge increase of parents who just can’t be fucked to do this stuff properly. If they know there’s a back stop it would be even fucking worse. It’s a shame for children who have feckless parents but burdening the underfunded and busy schools and overworked teachers is not the answer.

eg nits - if you had nits you used to be sent home until you got rid of them. It was an inconvenience for parents so they had to actually get rid of them. Now you can go to school with them - DC’s private school had a nit problem which went on for an entire half term. The parents are uneducated or on the breadline, they just can’t be fucked to do basic things to avoid nits spreading. It’s bullshit.

tbh would be better off pouring funding into social workers going and checking parents are doing their job/penalising them if they aren’t.

Someone on another thread suggested two tier pricing at supermarkets should be looked into because some people live chaotic lives 😳

But the issue is the huge increase of parents who just can’t be fucked to do this stuff properly. If they know there’s a back stop it would be even fucking worse. It’s a shame for children who have feckless parents but burdening the underfunded and busy schools and overworked teachers is not the answer.

eg nits - if you had nits you used to be sent home until you got rid of them. It was an inconvenience for parents so they had to actually get rid of them. Now you can go to school with them - DC’s private school had a nit problem which went on for an entire half term. The parents are uneducated or on the breadline, they just can’t be fucked to do basic things to avoid nits spreading. It’s bullshit.

tbh would be better off pouring funding into social workers going and checking parents are doing their job/penalising them if they aren’t.

With regard children. Let's say you have shit, can't be bothered parents. That's not the child's fault. Personally I would rather, teachers, health visitors etc took time to help this child learn the importance of teeth brushing (for example). Or had breakfast clubs at school so they could eat. Or spare uniform at school. Would you rather nobody provided these things for the child?

RosesAndHellebores · Today 14:20

Twenty to twenty five years ago, however, I don't recall any 3 to 4 year olds starting school in nappies and I just don't understand what has gone on there. Nurseries for 2.5 and up were draconian in their expectations, rightly or wrongly.

My cousin is a Primary 1 / 2 teacher and she has 6 year olds coming in in nappies, she says the worst offenders are middle class parents. She's been screamed at by at least one mother, for not changing a 6 year old's dirty nappy. She's been told a number of times that it's her job to toilet train children, FGS!

Many of them can't use cutlery and eat cooked meals with their hands etc.

It's madness.

I understand perfectly that we're taxed more than ever as government provison shrinks.

Would it have killed them to have kept it in a fridge though?
Would you drink warm curdled milk that smellt and tasted like vomit ?
Admittedly I went to a very middle class primary school and doubt there were many if any children in my school living below the the poverty line
But that doesn't mean children should br forced to drink something that makes them feel sick ,because there are children worse off than them
I can't drink milk even now and im 50.

Ah, the sound of a point whistling over someone's head......

Hmmm, when I was at primary school in the 80s we had dental and eye check-ups at school, and the “nit nurse” used to come and inspect everyone’s heads at least once a term. I just missed out on free milk at school, thanks to Thatcher the Milk Snatcher. My children haven’t had any of those things. In fact, we have to pay for them for them to see a private dentist because we couldn’t find an NHS one with spaces. Child benefit was universal back then too. About a third of the UK population lived in council housing in the late 70s. So I don’t agree that expectations of “the state” are higher now than in the past.

Ah, the sound of a point whistling over someone's head......

Who will pay for all your ‘free’ stuff though?

I don't know if there's a common expectation?
I dread needing care for my family or myself. Most people I know feel the same. Too many times I've seen news reports on care home abuse, only discovered after a concerned relative installs cameras. I've told my family I'd rather have assisted dying but that's my choice (and something I want at that stage of my life even if every care home was excellent). However my choice should never be expected for everyone. Compassionate care that doesn't cost a fortune should be possible. It used to.

When I was a kid an elderly relative was in what was then called 'an old people's home'. She didn't need nursing care, just a bit of extra support, but It was a mixed needs home. It was a lovely place. Safe, homely environment with good community feel, sense of companionship with other residents, variety of activities for residents, welcoming communal spaces, and kind empathetic staff.

Didn't cost a fortune either, and although wages weren't high there were no staffing issues. Because there was more affordable housing in those days, but also management treated staff well. Staff didn't have unbearable to manage workloads, and residents who needed nursing care had properly trained staff to help them.

Something's gone wrong. Care home costs are skyhigh, and (good) at-home carers are often even more expensive. The problem is the lack of affordable housing, but also I think it's the privatisation of care homes and care services.

With family caring for elderly relatives. In the past there were more SAHP so this was more possible. Now the cost of living especially housing means few can afford to give up work to care for family. This is yet another issue linked to the lack of affordable housing. Related to this is many people have had to move away from family for housing or work.

More social housing and better job opportunities in all parts of the country would help, but there's also the issue that many people have nursing needs beyond capability of their family. They need properly trained professionals. However definitely if there was better financial support for carers and affordable housing, I assume more people could care for family at home.

Perhaps if foods and drinks that contribute to poor dental health weren't amongst the cheapest peddled to parents

This is another reduction of responsibility. Water out of the tap is even cheaper.

I remember the days of a yearly visit from the school dentist back in the 70s.

I'm just pointing out that this idea wasn't due to parental expectation.

Nor is it new.

Perhaps if foods and drinks that contribute to poor dental health weren't amongst the cheapest peddled to parents struggling to make ends meet, it would help.

Doesn't detract from the fact that overall dental health provision has become a luxury.

But then as they say, the devil's in the detail. Looking at the bigger picture overall is unpalatable for many, because if they find themselves in it one day, they'll have to eat their words.

I get the feeling that the people moaning about warm school milk would be quick to criticise anyone complaining about anything currently provided by the state as an 'extra'.

It shows a total lack of awareness to not even acknowledge that some children really needed that milk as nutrition. They may well not have enjoyed it either, but it was provided as important for their health and growth.