To think the level of state involvement many posters expect is bonkers?

I'm getting a bit bemused by some of this thread. Is state dependency catching then? If it's high earners sending their kids to school with no basics skills and nappies too is it because they're all doing coke in their downtime? The general tone is "all state dependency is bad" yet just by being resident in the UK we are all state dependent to a degree.

If such a high number of people are suddenly unable to raise their children at all across the classes, then there's two options isn't there? No kids for you, you're unworthy, and all the rest go straight into state care, which is a "communist" answer. And communism (as it has been tried) is actually complete state authoritarianism and dependency.

What is it people actually want?

I don't think anyone on here trying to pin clear global and engineered economic crisis on lack of personal responsibility and demands for school tooth brushing (which is an absolute red herring) really knows what they want, except to ensure that those at the bottom of the heap keep getting a good kicking, psychologically and financially.

Why can't we just give them an actual job?

I did a little calculation on your £26/week in 1990 when Thatcher left office is the equivalent of £74.06 now which is MORE than over 18s get now, at 17 you'd get nothing. Did you pay for your accountancy training btw? Because you'd have to today!

It’s so yawn inducing when you’re a bot because you dare to post something that’s unpopular on the echo chamber of MN. I don’t see anyone on labour threads yelling “bot”, but everyone is too busy sneering at the people who pay the most tax and patting each other on the back for being so kind and generous with other people’s money

Where are you getting those statistics? Anecdotally and from DC school and demographic I haven’t found that to be the case.

although even in their private school, plenty of parents don’t bother doing the basic 5-10 mins of reading per night then complain their child is behind, which is its own type of entitlement “we are paying so school need to teach/we absolve ourselves of any responsibility”. But generally at the 3-4 year old intake only 1-2 children per 20 are in nappies (without SEN and should still be 0)

No. Probably just people who disagree with you.

Are you only looking at people who live in council houses?

State dependency is more than that?

They tried that - it was called Workfare.

What it became was a scheme by which big corporations took on "volunteers" allegedly who would be trained and given a job to get them off benefits, who simply used any excuse to terminate them at the end of their "voluntary" period and take on another "volunteer" - rinse and repeat. The only beneficiaries were the employers who essentially got free labour.

Currently the unemployed are sanctioned if they do not treat job-seeking as a full time job and prove it, regardless of any "personal responsibility" they may have domestically.

Perhaps a number of these feral parents everyone is conjuring up are letting "standards" slide because they are living in fear of being left with zero money if they don't ask "how high" whenever a DWP employee says "jump". Which raises the spectre of homelessness and instability which makes you even less appealing to an employer.

Yes sorry I should rephrase to just “any contribution”. There is obviously a bit of a sad perpetual cycle that tends to trend with this type of accidental pregnancy scenario with a dead beat dad who has several children. It ends up being a benefit reliance scenario and then the child will go on the same path.

you are of course right that plenty of people who don’t net contribute do have essential jobs. You do see a number of threads on here though where posters are encouraged not to net contribute/keep hours low etc and top up with benefits as it’s a better work life balance etc. it’s wrong.

It's just over 22 million or 1/3 of people, about the same as the percentage who lived in a council house in the 1970s.

State dependency has not increased it has been privatised so now costs us WAY more!

Lots of people on YTS didn't have such a good experience though.

What voluntary work do you envisage people doing?

100%

the clearest example of where “no judgement” gets you in the obesity crisis in this country. Massively impacts the nhs but no one is allowed to comment on it.

people should have judgement - it’s necessary to keep a society functional. If your neighbour smacks their child you SHOULD judge them and intervene. If your friend is commuting benefits fraud you SHOULD judge them and intervene.

i think funding is sorely needed in social services and sectors which can actually make society better, and be diverted away from parents who are not doing their job, as OP said.

I didn't do YTS ,but I'm 50 so I remember people doing them wasent the issue ws that for some it could lead to a career and for others it was just a year or two years of ,being very poorly paid and not being taken on at the end of it so not really any better off?

I couldn't agree more.

If you haven’t found a job in a year, you’re not going to. That simple really

What absolute bullshit.

Shit job market.
Disability,health or mental health issues that need time to diagnose and/or treat.
Being fired/made redundant at 50/60 or when pregnant and no one else hiring you.
Collapse of your industry and needing time to retrain.
Fleeing DV with the clothes on your back and a kid or two and living in a refuge.

Plenty other circumstances and situations.

It’s ridiculous . Highlighted by the thread the other day about what’s you’d do if you were PM.

so many posters just wanted MORE handouts.

lots of people want everyone else to be responsible so that they don’t have to be.

so many people have lots all sense of accountability, it’s terrifying.

I have always thought that those in receipt of benefits who are fit and healthy should be assigned voluntary work that their benefits are dependent on completing. It is not fair on society or the benefit claimant to just leave them parked on benefits. I say that as someone who did a YTS scheme at 17 under Thatcher (having been on benefits as i couldn't get a job) which was where you worked and got £26 per week which wasn't much even then- it was the making on me and eventually became a qualified accountant.

I’m sorry to hear about your son being upset at school - of course that’s not right whatsoever. But that’s also why I said “sometimes”. It’s not always the case, of course, that children with SEN can learn/not have accidents. But I do think there’s an element today of people with NT children who are too busy to bother, and then ND children where it’s harder and they therefore just give up. The problem is that at some point, NT or ND (except in some cases of course) someone does need to do it, and it’s not fair that the responsibility falls to the school.

I personally can’t stand potty training. The concerted effort and accidents etc but there isn’t an alternative! Tooth brushing is also not very fun (although they are used to it so it’s not as bad as it could be) but again it’s non negotiable so again 🤷🏻‍♀️

This is already happening. No knee replacement because you're too heavy. Too heavy because can't move due to knee problem ... knee problem just gets worse until the person can no longer work and ends up on benefits.

So you'd let people starve even though they are not going to be able to get a job?

No one with any sense would think cutting off access to benefits completely after a year is a good idea. That is why it will never happen, regardless of how much you relish the prospect of people you think are so much lower than you being left to starve.

60-40% of those are typically middle class high earners and send 5 year olds to school in nappies, without SEN. That's the reason it's shocking but it's much deeper than poor standards. Other basics are also very evidently not in place at home. What else is going on that this level of inability to cope with a baby/toddler/young child is happening with parents, particularly in the last 3 years.

Ummm.... So people need to fix their disability that prevents them from working? Ok then. I don't disagree that there are far too many people who fall out of work during a bad patch and then stay there but not everything is fixable.

Good job even Thatcher didn't think that was a good idea. There would have been a lot of homelessness and dead people in the 80s.

No government would be stupid enough to cut off benefits completely after one year. Well maybe Tice would if he became PM, cheered on by Oakeshott no doubt.

@FaeryRing another poster made the point about net contributors. I replied to that poster.