To think the level of state involvement many posters expect is bonkers?

Desecratedcoconut · Today 15:03

If there's one thing we learnt from covid, it's how endlessly expandable the words key worker can become.

Medics, para-medics, refuse collectors, police, teaching staff, cleaners.

How about that?

JenniferBooth · Today 15:13
CoffeeCantata · Today 15:01

I also think (unpopularly, I'm sure!) that social housing in central London should be for key-workers, or at least people who need to be there. Some key-workers earn very little and face long and gruelling commutes to the centre.

Difficult to organise, I know.

As to the 'I don't want to move away from family and friends' argument. Well, who does? But many of us have to, whether we live in social housing or not, and I think it's not an unreasonable expectation. Whether people like it or not is another matter. Life isn't about not having to put yourself outside your comfort zone. I had to move to find work, and I'd do so again. I wouldn't WANT to, but I accept that you can't always have your own way in life!
Then dont moan when there is no one to look after Granny

I had to look after my ailing mum for nearly a year from 200 miles away. I had to get on the motorway or the train most weeks and battle with care-giving authorities and hospitals. I do know what that's like - it's gruelling - but what I don't understand is - why do you think we shouldn't expect to do it, wherever we live? It's just harder if you're someone like me - but I don't think it's a reason never to move more than a street away from your family. Where would we be if everyone had that attitude?

Just because something's hard doesn't mean you shouldn't have to do it!

Oh, and I know of a number of people who 'never moved away from family' who abdicated responsibilty for elderly relatives, so staying put isn't always the magic bullet.

Then dont moan when there is no one to look after Granny

"if you were still working in a care home i would be advising you to leave now You wont get thanked for doing it"

DHs words to me in March 2020. Attitudes like yours have proven him to be prophetic

yet again
From an older thread.

The Elephant and Castle neighbourhood is being physically, socially and ethnically transformed. This started with the demolition of the Heygate estate, a classic for stigmatised perceptions of council housing and the people who live in it. As the local 35% Campaign has meticulously documented, a succession of promises to Heygate residents were broken to arrive at a situation where 1,214 council homes were demolished, to be replaced with 2,704 new homes, of which only 82 (3%) are for social rent. The HA partner was London and Quadrant. To be eligible for the cheapest one-bedroom home built by them on the Heygate site, people needed a minimum household income of £57,500. The average household income in that part of Southwark is £24,324

You do know that HA stands for housing association right?

But this kind of stuff doesn't cost money. So no excuses for saying you are too poor or whatever to make kids brush teeth or eat with a knife and fork

If there's one thing we learnt from covid, it's how endlessly expandable the words key worker can become.

No offence but you still can't complain that has nothing on how much private renters pay. Like damn I know someone privately renting a two bed apartment for over a grand a month and someone else living in an identical version of that apartment renting it from the council for less than 500. Sooo go figure. Not that you should be made to feel some kind of lucky/guilty way. But you can't really complain either.

Have a look at properties to rent in your area on Rightmove and you'll see what I mean

I also think (unpopularly, I'm sure!) that social housing in central London should be for key-workers, or at least people who need to be there. Some key-workers earn very little and face long and gruelling commutes to the centre.

Difficult to organise, I know.

As to the 'I don't want to move away from family and friends' argument. Well, who does? But many of us have to, whether we live in social housing or not, and I think it's not an unreasonable expectation. Whether people like it or not is another matter. Life isn't about not having to put yourself outside your comfort zone. I had to move to find work, and I'd do so again. I wouldn't WANT to, but I accept that you can't always have your own way in life!

No one is saying parents shouldn't be teaching the basics to their kids

The problem is that for a variety of reasons, some do not.

So do we do nothing, which seems to be your approach or do we try education?

Seeing a dentist and altering behaviours can help prevent children having even more work done on teeth.

1:5 children have had serious dental issues, why not try and make that 1 in 10 or 20?

Againname
Bob Crowe strongly believed that social housing should be mixed, not 'poverty ghettos', and he understood the value of stable community. As a PP says he also didn't do Right to Buy. RTB is a major reason why there's now a shortage.

Can you explain a bit more?

I ask because I really think the first thing that needs to happen to try to address the social housing shortage is to have a debate about what and who it is for, not just to build willy-nilly all over the green belt, and your answer above has puzzled me!

If social housing should be mixed - where do you draw the line? People who are affluent but just fancy a council property? (If so, please can I have one of those nice flats by the Thames?) If Bob Crowe meant 'People shouldn't have to leave their council homes just because they become wealthier over time', then what should happen...should their rent be raised to more of a market level in order to fund more social housing schemes? I think it should.

I agree that it's grim when social housing is just given to the most feral, untidy, anti-social people. But our society has changed out of all recognition since the 1950s - so what do we do? How do we a) allocate s.h. and b) ensure that s.h. estates don't just become dumping grounds for the anti-social underclass (Marx's 'lumpenproletariat).

I do agree that RTB caused some of the problems we have today.

We had one, it was called surestart and one of the results of it was a huge improvement in the health of children, beyond the 13,000 hospital admissions prevented. But the Tories scrapped it.

https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2303.full

And a lot of today's parents would have grown up at a time when schools were giving regular tooth brushing advice and access to NHS dentistry was easier. Doesn't seem to have worked does it when we look at the apparent number of today's parents who can't look after their own children's teeth!

Prevention starts at home with parents ensuring their kid's teeth are brushed regularly and parents being careful about the food/drink they're giving their kids.

By the time dentists are involved, the damage has been done and they're needed to repair the damage via extractions, fillings, etc.

I completely agree but there must be a workaround that doesn’t include 1) rewarding the lazy arseholes having these children and 2) overburdening teachers

But can you not see that this is not going to be the case for 90% of parents with children with poor teeth? It’s not a personal
attack on you as it doesn’t apply to you, or to @MistressoftheDarkSide. I actually
understand as I was on antibiotics for DC3 during pregnancy for uti too and his teeth are chalky. I get it.

but the majority of people are not in this situation.

Add to that as I recall soemone running a care home in the 1970 with people in their 70’s there and they were classed as really old. Now we are expected to be jogging and swimming at aged 70 and the age of people in care homes are in their late 80 or 90 even over 100. Their ‘kids’ are in their 60 or 70 when in the 1970 they were being supported. Greater life expectancy has created quite a care role for people themselves in retirement and not necessarily in good health.

More pertinent is what is the point of life when hugely frail in your twilight years and with serious ailments?

We keep people alive unnecessarily for whose benefit other than big pharma or care homes

Yes my daughter had to have 4 teeth extracted when aged 8 as she had no enamel on them as seemingly I had an infection when pregnant. She has absolutely beautiful white and fully aligned teeth as an adult. No fillings in them and due to the extractions no overcrowding etc The odd thing was that her teeth was checked the year before with no issues. All really strange. Anyhow she is a stunner so no issues and has teeth anyone would be proud of. Not a single filling and beautifully aligned at aged 22.

My son never even had a filling despite being SEN. … he had to have the stuff brushed on once.

They had a really healthy diet, drank only water and no fizzy drinks or apple juice etc

I didn't.

But i do think in the case of inadequate parents, the state, if only for pure cost benefits, should help.

A child with rotting teeth will have poor attendance, will leave school with poor job opportunities, will be a burden on the NHS and our benefits system

Right, okay, sorry. I missed that, I almost launched into my 'robots won't save us' rant, as well. 😁

Sorry i was being facetious!

Of course they should but from recent announcements it seems we should have LESS children, not more.

THIS X a thousand

What makes you think in 50 years time, when the population of elderly people in this country places an enormous burden on the tax payer, that migrants will choose to come here to work and raise their families, rather than say, every other country which is facing the exact same problem?

It would be interesting to see the government have a clear discussion about the long term, or something that extends beyond 5 years, don't you?

Its not a repair. Its a change in health and safety rules. And while we are talking about the state i have saved the state plenty of money in the last eight years by buying my own esomaprazole and since 2021 my own mini pill due to being unable to access healthcare because our GP surgery is so useless. (im currently in the middle of changing to another surgery) so not only have i not had children Ive paid for my own bloody contraception as well. But no all that matters is that i live in social housing so cant complain. PFFT. Anyone on here good at maths? Ive spent £12 a fortnight on Nexium since 2015 and £19.75 every three months on Hana since October 2021

If you’re at the stage of neglecting basic care then I think even visiting to the dentist might be an issue