To think the level of state involvement many posters expect is bonkers?

I bet you don't.

You are saying awful things - essentially advocating sterilisation - and you know exactly what you are doing.

You yourself are actively damaging British society by posting what you post.

I am tired of being tolerant of this type of bollocks.

I’m not making wild claims, I’m having a discussion and trying to suggest some ideas. I’m using words like “if”, I’m not saying what will work.

all I can see is that the current system is not working, and I don’t see how pandering to people and pressuring others to pick up the slack could possible make it any better.

I would and do say this stuff in real life and I don’t give a shit about feeling disdain when I hear things about how children are being raised negligently across the board.

Good grief. You express such disdain for your fellow British people. I have no time for this kind of attitude. You wouldn't dare to say it in so many real life settings, so you are hiding behind your keyboard expressing genuinely awful views. Obviously you have your reasons for being so full of these feelings towards fellow Brits, but it reflects terribly on you.

That's because the government isn't willing to look at long term plans and what actually works , they just do plasters and sound bites while at the same time cutting all services that have been helping and were working.

All health ,education and social care services have been cut, they are underfunded and understaffed and then we wonder why people are not well(in more way than one)? Gee, I wonder...

if it stops children being raised in unimaginable circumstances then I support it.

It wouldn't.

Unless you're willing and ready to sterilise anyone and everyone that has a possible risk factor. People leaving care, people that suffered trauma/abuse in childhood, people with mental health issues, people with SEND , people with a criminal record , people on low wages etc.

Even then you'll have kids suffering abuse in "normal" families and kids living in even worse conditions hidden and under the radar.

Do you people even think before you make some of these wild claims?

Yeah...until your circumstances are deemed not good.

The milk wasn't great, it was normally warm!

But how are you suggesting we do that?

Sadly what happens actually happens to children of really incompetent and neglectful parents is that they get taken into a care system which is already over-loaded and not working well, particularly for teenagers and young adults.

if it stops children being raised in unimaginable circumstances then I support it.

So which is it, do you want a smaller state or a bigger state?

@CoffeeCantata
@Againname
I live on a very mixed housing estate in outer London, built in the late 1970's. There's a small proportion of social housing (around a sixth) but most of it is privately owned and always has been though there are also many private sector rentals now. Initially the properties were pretty affordable and many people have lived here since the estate was built.
It looks like a very well-kept brutalist style council estate and there is very little vandalism, partly probably because we have a Security office. The lifts are mended quickly because we have a management office on-site. The gardens are well tended and the outside of the buildings are maintained. We have central heating from boilers in the centre of the site. All in all it is a lovely place to live.
Setting aside the huge initial cost of building an estate like this, it all comes at an enormous ongoing cost, with very high service charges paid by owners themselves and for the social housing tenants by the local authority. Sadly I think that the dream of building new, properly planned, built and run mixed estates like this would probably not be viable for any local authority today, either in terms of building or running costs. It also means, unfortunately, that you have to be pretty well off to buy here now which is changing the mix of the inhabitants.

Its not "Can't Read" its that their reading skills are that of a primary school child.
I in 4 child leave primary school below the basic standard, 20% of school leavers cannot read with confidence.

We cannot go around sterilising people, i'd have thought the 1930s and 40s would have taught us at least that.

All we can do is try and break the cycle of poverty/literacy/deprivation, possible too late for the parents but we can intervene in their children's lives, if we don't, we just condemn another generation.

No. Absolutely not. We have the lessons of history for that and it's a vile, lazy, reductionist concept rooted in dehumanisation and othering. Because it won't stop with that. It will lead to all sorts of reasoning around expansion of the concept for the "greater good."

I can't think of any system that wouldn't look totalitarian and dystopic. I thought the main thrust of this thread was to suggest that the state was too big, it seems a little counter intuitive if you intend for them to extend their role so far into the private shere that it acts as a fertility arbiter?

I have been thinking about this thread and like PPs said it’s about the children, however the root cause is the parents.

Just imagine instead of schools being involved, the police would have to write reports on someone’s ability to have children? Could go via the courts etc - alcoholics, drug dealers, criminals etc -

People would never suggest this but fully expect ‘schools’ to take ownership of the problems.

Well yes, it would be good if you had to have a licence or go on a course before having children but pretty hard to enforce without drastic measures

But this is also an issue. They are “too busy”. And I sympathise; but then they should not have children if they can’t cope with the basic realities of what that entails. And I do get circumstances change but in many cases these families have several Children so they knew and kept going

Currently listening to a YouTube video by Evan Edinger.

It's called "Are housing developers creating future slums by converting old office buildings".

Synchronistically eye opening, given the discussion about housing and points raised in CoffeeCantata's post.

There is. Enforced sterilisation isn't a new concept. Of course, the who and the how of that sterilisation is a cautionary tale about sticking it in the good idea pile.

I would be very curious to see the breakdown of this 7 million though. I don’t understand how people can be having children in a first world country and not be able to even read in order to support them. Or how we live in a country with free schooling and 7 million can’t read.