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Was my relative right all those years ago about me not working hard??

109 replies

Efogi · 11/05/2024 09:33

When I was a child, I was quite good academically and did very well without having to try too hard or struggle with any of my school work etc. Got used to being a high achiever.

A relative once told me that I should watch out - breezing through school work so easily without trying much would make me too comfy and complacent and I'd never learn what it meant to truly work hard to achieve something or have real drive. He told me a story of how the most inteligent girl in his class ended up as a petrol pump attendant as after breezing through school as she didn't know how to work hard.

Fast forward to working life and after a slow start in my 20s where I probably coasted along and never felt in right role, I've done alright for myself but I wouldn't say I was a high achiever in work - more a solid and reliable colleague who's moved up gradually and also been in right place at right time on a few occasions too.

One of the things I have been told by a few bosses is I don't have as much 'hunger' as others.

I have colleagues that are workaholics, do 50-60 hour weeks and are relentless in their pursuit of targets/ goals. Sometimes they skip lunch and seem to neglect their wellbeing to ensure they fit more work in.

I've never gone to those extremes as I know Id burn out very quickly but I get what's on my to do list done well and efficiently, I work late sometimes when it requires it etc and probably go over my hours some weeks. I can't claim to be as relentless as some of my colleagues though and I wonder if there's something missing for me with that.

Recently lost out on a promotion and I've felt a bit downgraded at work. Made me reflective on my whole mindset about work and my relatives words from all those years ago have come back to haunt me.

Is my approach all wrong? Does it seem complacent compared to the workaholic colleagues?

I'd say I am ambitious but at the same time I've never wanted to be a complete slave to a job and sacrifice my wellbeing to climb to the top as I know I'm just a cog in a machine and can easily be replaced.

Feeling down about the situation and would be great to hear some perspectives.

OP posts:
notofthisWorld11 · 11/05/2024 18:52

Efogi · 11/05/2024 18:38

You're so right. I think I feel compelled to push myself as always was an achiever and I'm surrounded by workaholics but I'm happiest when I have downtime or doing simple things like listening to a nice audiobook or going for a walk.

So if you're a natural introvert, can you lean towards roles where you don't have to deal with a whole load of people or compete with them? So stay away from sales, customer-facing roles or teamwork and gravitate towards research, analysis, data, tech, editing etc. I don't know what field you're in. If you are ND, there are companies like Microsoft who may actively seek you out. If it's more a case of not wanting to work all hours and you're financially secure - don't work all hours trying to be all things to all people. If it's mental stimulation you feel would help, as you achieved so much at school, have you thought of the Open University or similar?

Desperada68 · 11/05/2024 18:48

In my experience promotion isn't about what you do, it's what you tell other people you do. Has to be the right people of course. And in my experience the more senior the manager the more gullible they are and susceptible to flattery.

I was very ambitious until I burned out completely and had to take 18 months out.

Now I just want to get to 60 so I can take my first set of pensions and drop to part time.

I cannot be arsed with the professional bum lickers and toadies any more.

Efogi · 11/05/2024 18:40

LadyThistledown · 11/05/2024 18:34

Also to add OP I'm guessing your grade is 'middle management' - but as an individual contributor?
It's a great position to be in IMO.
Running a team is a completely different skill to just 'doing' the job. Even if you have worked with, mentored, coached people etc. Often people are promoted to people managers with little to no management training, and it's seen as an 'add-on', something to be tacked on to the day jobs, which they're good on. However, they flounder, because they're either not suited or didn't realize how much work it would be.
Also as middle management you get flack from both sides - those below and above you. It's a delicate dance, protecting the team from the shitstorm above and making sure that they work together to deliver.

Yes I'm middle management, individual contributor now and it suits me well. I temporarily had to run a team at one point and didn't enjoy it tbh, a lot of stress

OP posts:
Efogi · 11/05/2024 18:38

notofthisWorld11 · 11/05/2024 18:33

Don't be down on yourself - you sound fine to me. It sounds a bit like you feel you ought to be ambitious and over-achieving almost to a fault perhaps either because of past or present expectations of others or because people around you are doing that but maybe this isn't where you're happiest. Are you in the wrong work environment?

I agree with you that we are all cogs in a wheel and no-one is indispensable. To me success is measured by how happy you are not by endlessly chasing goals. I had a great career - company car, lots of perks, foreign travel. I liked the status but ultimately wanted out. Dig deep into yourself and do what's best for you alone.

You're so right. I think I feel compelled to push myself as always was an achiever and I'm surrounded by workaholics but I'm happiest when I have downtime or doing simple things like listening to a nice audiobook or going for a walk.

OP posts:
LadyThistledown · 11/05/2024 18:34

Also to add OP I'm guessing your grade is 'middle management' - but as an individual contributor?
It's a great position to be in IMO.
Running a team is a completely different skill to just 'doing' the job. Even if you have worked with, mentored, coached people etc. Often people are promoted to people managers with little to no management training, and it's seen as an 'add-on', something to be tacked on to the day jobs, which they're good on. However, they flounder, because they're either not suited or didn't realize how much work it would be.
Also as middle management you get flack from both sides - those below and above you. It's a delicate dance, protecting the team from the shitstorm above and making sure that they work together to deliver.

notofthisWorld11 · 11/05/2024 18:33

Efogi · 11/05/2024 09:33

When I was a child, I was quite good academically and did very well without having to try too hard or struggle with any of my school work etc. Got used to being a high achiever.

A relative once told me that I should watch out - breezing through school work so easily without trying much would make me too comfy and complacent and I'd never learn what it meant to truly work hard to achieve something or have real drive. He told me a story of how the most inteligent girl in his class ended up as a petrol pump attendant as after breezing through school as she didn't know how to work hard.

Fast forward to working life and after a slow start in my 20s where I probably coasted along and never felt in right role, I've done alright for myself but I wouldn't say I was a high achiever in work - more a solid and reliable colleague who's moved up gradually and also been in right place at right time on a few occasions too.

One of the things I have been told by a few bosses is I don't have as much 'hunger' as others.

I have colleagues that are workaholics, do 50-60 hour weeks and are relentless in their pursuit of targets/ goals. Sometimes they skip lunch and seem to neglect their wellbeing to ensure they fit more work in.

I've never gone to those extremes as I know Id burn out very quickly but I get what's on my to do list done well and efficiently, I work late sometimes when it requires it etc and probably go over my hours some weeks. I can't claim to be as relentless as some of my colleagues though and I wonder if there's something missing for me with that.

Recently lost out on a promotion and I've felt a bit downgraded at work. Made me reflective on my whole mindset about work and my relatives words from all those years ago have come back to haunt me.

Is my approach all wrong? Does it seem complacent compared to the workaholic colleagues?

I'd say I am ambitious but at the same time I've never wanted to be a complete slave to a job and sacrifice my wellbeing to climb to the top as I know I'm just a cog in a machine and can easily be replaced.

Feeling down about the situation and would be great to hear some perspectives.

Don't be down on yourself - you sound fine to me. It sounds a bit like you feel you ought to be ambitious and over-achieving almost to a fault perhaps either because of past or present expectations of others or because people around you are doing that but maybe this isn't where you're happiest. Are you in the wrong work environment?

I agree with you that we are all cogs in a wheel and no-one is indispensable. To me success is measured by how happy you are not by endlessly chasing goals. I had a great career - company car, lots of perks, foreign travel. I liked the status but ultimately wanted out. Dig deep into yourself and do what's best for you alone.

thebestinterest · 11/05/2024 18:31

“One of the things I have been told by a few bosses is I don't have as much 'hunger' as others.

I have colleagues that are workaholics, do 50-60 hour weeks and are relentless in their pursuit of targets/ goals. Sometimes they skip lunch and seem to neglect their wellbeing to ensure they fit more work in.”

You’ve never gone to those extremes, and you shouldn’t have to FFS. Your workplace sounds toxic. Unless your salary is upwards of $400k or your boss is paying you overtime, I don’t see why the heck you need to be working 60-80 hours.

and when I see coworkers skipping lunch to keep working, I don’t see that as a good thing. I see that as someone struggling with their workload!

LadyThistledown · 11/05/2024 18:24

Lavender14 · 11/05/2024 17:49

Personally I'd view a company that rewards and promotes staff working for free, skipping lunch and working late are exactly that as a big red flag. I work extremely hard at my job and I'm very dedicated to it. I also make sure I'm out the door at 5pm when they stop paying me. My workplace actively encourages this because they value and promote healthy staff and a good work life balance. As a result our turnover is low and most staff have been here a long time and are very skilled. It's a lovely environment to work in despite the job itself being intense and at times demanding and stressful. The last job I had that criticised me for working my hours, I left.

A job is a job, they will replace you if you need to leave for any reason and noone is indispensable to a company like that. If they did value their staff they'd value their time.

Hungry is a toxic phrase.

I find the 'working more hours' quite interesting actually.
My current employer doesn't expect anybody to work beyond their contracted hours.
However, it's also true that (figures made up)
Promotion requires a certain amount of experience, measured in both type of work and hours put in.
Someone who is efficient, leaves on time, etc can reasonably expect to gain this in 4-6 years.
Someone who works overtime, takes on more projects etc however can be ready in half that time.
Of course, some people, by virtue of having a good boss/right place and right time/right combination of projects, also get promoted earlier without the extra hours, but this is quite rare.
I notice a lot of the younger folk gunning for quick promotion - especially women. Trying to maximize their income and seniority before having kids, and THEN taking their foot off the gas. Which isn't a bad plan - buying a property + childcare is so expensive these days, their life would be so much easier on a higher salary.
What are we to do?
We can't stop people from working more - or not rewarding them - they'll just leave.
Personally I try to build teams with a balance of personalities and ambitions... but it's not easy.
The company as a whole has a good proportion of parents, part-timers, people with caring responsibilities etc so all good. But the length of 'time' it takes to get promoted naturally I feel is often overlooked. Also how, after a certain point, it has to be something you actively want and chase, rather than something which occurs naturally. 'Chasing' doesn't necessarily mean more hours, but working strategically towards a higher-level goal.

Efogi · 11/05/2024 18:15

Heatherbell1978 · 11/05/2024 18:04

You are describing me! I coasted through school doing very little and cramming the night before exams. Same at uni. Got into a grad scheme by somehow managing to write an amazing application followed by a couple of brilliant interviews. I'm very introverted but have the ability to personality switch when it suits me. I'm sure I'm neurodivergent.
At work I operate at about 50% capacity, enough to tick the boxes but don't go over and above. If something I'm working on really interests me I can operate like a machine and wow everyone. Then I go back to operating at normal capacity. I know if I worked like that all the time I'd have reached the top by now. But I just can't be bothered. Which annoys me because I do like the thought of being paid more but I don't think I'd handle the stress well.
I envy people who work hard 100% of the time and go up and up the organisation whilst at the same time not being arsed to do it myself. It's bizarre.

This is so interesting. I'm pretty much just as you described and also wonder at times if I'm ND in some way

OP posts:
Heatherbell1978 · 11/05/2024 18:04

You are describing me! I coasted through school doing very little and cramming the night before exams. Same at uni. Got into a grad scheme by somehow managing to write an amazing application followed by a couple of brilliant interviews. I'm very introverted but have the ability to personality switch when it suits me. I'm sure I'm neurodivergent.
At work I operate at about 50% capacity, enough to tick the boxes but don't go over and above. If something I'm working on really interests me I can operate like a machine and wow everyone. Then I go back to operating at normal capacity. I know if I worked like that all the time I'd have reached the top by now. But I just can't be bothered. Which annoys me because I do like the thought of being paid more but I don't think I'd handle the stress well.
I envy people who work hard 100% of the time and go up and up the organisation whilst at the same time not being arsed to do it myself. It's bizarre.

Lavender14 · 11/05/2024 17:49

Personally I'd view a company that rewards and promotes staff working for free, skipping lunch and working late are exactly that as a big red flag. I work extremely hard at my job and I'm very dedicated to it. I also make sure I'm out the door at 5pm when they stop paying me. My workplace actively encourages this because they value and promote healthy staff and a good work life balance. As a result our turnover is low and most staff have been here a long time and are very skilled. It's a lovely environment to work in despite the job itself being intense and at times demanding and stressful. The last job I had that criticised me for working my hours, I left.

A job is a job, they will replace you if you need to leave for any reason and noone is indispensable to a company like that. If they did value their staff they'd value their time.

Hungry is a toxic phrase.

rainbowbee · 11/05/2024 17:48

I'm a bit like you. I was an academic over-achiever but settled for a really safe job in my mid thirties after years of financial instability chasing my 'passions' (or the image I'd been taught to want).
Your life and how you want to live it is more important. I was sniffed at in my office for not going for a promotion. I'm sorry but that role was about 15 more hours per week and after tax comes in at about 30 quid more in your pocket per week. No thank you! I'd hate to turn into someone who thinks pointless spreadsheets are urgent matters.

marthasmum · 11/05/2024 17:42

This is an interesting thread OP. I was very academic at school, worked extremely hard and got top results, went to uni etc. As others have said it doesn’t translate to success at work - that requires different skills. I’ve done reasonably well in my chosen field but I still work very hard. That’s not a boast, I work harder than I think is healthy because I’m in a public sector job that’s understaffed. I struggle to do a less complete job and to work more reasonable hours. So to me, you have a much better work-life balance and a healthy approach. I can see that you might want to develop in certain ways but I’d say keep the laid back attitude! Comparison really is the thief of joy 😊.

Beefycurrynight · 11/05/2024 17:40

A leading retail chain takes on graduates a management, they are on a salary and some work 20 hours a week extra for nothing . They end up burnt out , extremely stressed and then quit and the whole merry go round continues again .

Efogi · 11/05/2024 17:33

WoshPank · 11/05/2024 16:26

Do you have other things you can place at the centre of it, derive self esteem and meaning from? I think that could help with the feeling of deflation.

I have a few hobbies and a lovely family so I do have other things but I think I always need validation from others to feel good about myself and sometimes don't get it at work

OP posts:
Efogi · 11/05/2024 17:31

Fluffywigg · 11/05/2024 16:11

You sound like you have a good balance, you work extra when you need to but not for fun. Why should you? Why should anyone have to work several hours a week more than their contracted hours?

I used to work with a woman that would come in to work 45 minutes early and leave 15 mins late. That’s over 20 hours extra a month. If we were talking about jobs with huge salaries then that’s different I guess but were talking about a role where the pay was not much more than the minimum wage.

She cane in early as there was soo much (too much to do) and she always seemed to excel and make it look easy as she would get her targets etc…. Other staff members struggled because they couldn’t get in as early as she could.

So other people looked incompetent because Zoe could do everything so why couldn’t they? The reality was Zoe was spending an extra 5 hours at least a week if her own time because the expectation was too high and it could barely be done in the normal hours. Zoe was making everyone else look bad to the managers but they didn’t it’s because she worked for free so it’s not great for anyone.

Edited

We have a few Zoes at my work too and I think this is part of the problem. I do try and do extra etc but I'm not a Zoe so I'll always look rubbish in comparison

OP posts:
Drfosters · 11/05/2024 17:07

Absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting to be a workaholic. It’s got absolutely nothing to do with academic ability. Everyone is wired differently and our family life and life experiences shape how we view work/money/ambition. I was ambitious when I graduated but now I’m in my 40s I work to live not live to work. But I have earned reasonably previously and my husband has a well paid job so I don’t have the internal impetuous to slave away and miss time with my kids. Money is important in life to live but aside from paying the essentials earning money and status is always a cost/benefit to general happiness. So if you earn enough and are fundamentally happy in your life I’d say you were winning in life. Stop worrying about the right or wrong way to have a career.

Mairzydotes · 11/05/2024 17:03

I did very well in my g.c.ses but haven't done much academic since. I've worked low paid jobs. But I want to be content. I don't always want to be chasing the next thing .

Beefycurrynight · 11/05/2024 17:03

I've seen people work hard , go the extra mile and get nowhere . I've seen people coast , take credit for others work and generally arse lick their way to promotion. Just do no more or less what you are employed to do and look busy . I learned my lesson.

Allthesea · 11/05/2024 16:35

I think your attitude to work is very healthy.
Plenty of people willingly burn themselves out and ruin / miss out on relationships out of ambition.
Who was it in Macbeth who said that roaring ambition o’erleaps itself? People who sacrifice everything to get ahead end up with nothing. Work isn’t everything, you are good at what you do - that is success in my book.

WoshPank · 11/05/2024 16:26

Efogi · 11/05/2024 14:23

Yes I often look at some of the team leaders and see what they're dealing with and feel glad I'm out of that and can just focus on getting my work done.

Doing more hours or having a fancy job title would make me miserable

I suppose I always got a lot of self esteem from high academic achievements and now I don't get that from work as much so sometimes feel a bit deflated

Do you have other things you can place at the centre of it, derive self esteem and meaning from? I think that could help with the feeling of deflation.

PickupaPension · 11/05/2024 16:23

We all have an innate personality, I don’t think it can be truly changed.

DH is a very gifted man but is too nice and not as driven as some just like yourself. He has done well enough in life but some of his friends really are top of the tree, the sort of 250k per annum types that are actually vanishingly rare except on MN, they are mainly arseholes that work in the city.

I remember a younger member of staff who had that hunger, he trampled all over people and was ruthless. He is incredibly successful but a total cunt and I’m glad I don’t have to look at his smug self satisfied face anymore across a meeting table.

I remember turning down promotion, my boss was absolutely taken aback, life’s too short and I have retired early. We have done many financial trajectories and he is actually probably going to retire next year. If he put in another five years he could probably make the very top of his career tree, it’s not 250k but it’s a lot more than he is on. But then we are all a long time dead and we want to sit on beaches in Wales watching sunrises. Some of our friends have died in their fifties and it’s been a total mindset changer.

Fluffywigg · 11/05/2024 16:11

You sound like you have a good balance, you work extra when you need to but not for fun. Why should you? Why should anyone have to work several hours a week more than their contracted hours?

I used to work with a woman that would come in to work 45 minutes early and leave 15 mins late. That’s over 20 hours extra a month. If we were talking about jobs with huge salaries then that’s different I guess but were talking about a role where the pay was not much more than the minimum wage.

She cane in early as there was soo much (too much to do) and she always seemed to excel and make it look easy as she would get her targets etc…. Other staff members struggled because they couldn’t get in as early as she could.

So other people looked incompetent because Zoe could do everything so why couldn’t they? The reality was Zoe was spending an extra 5 hours at least a week if her own time because the expectation was too high and it could barely be done in the normal hours. Zoe was making everyone else look bad to the managers but they didn’t it’s because she worked for free so it’s not great for anyone.

TheYearOfSmallThings · 11/05/2024 16:04

I'm in a similar position OP - I definitely could have achieved more and indeed still could if I made a bit more effort. But I don't want to make more effort, so I live with the feeling that I should be achieving more!

And it's not about working longer hours, it's about being driven to take on new challenges, claim credit, push to be given new roles and responsibilities...I work with people who do all this and they achieve more in terms of advancement (if not actual work that needs doing).

You can change your mindset or at least pretend to. The question is do you want it enough? Maybe this has been your wake up call. I am still waiting for mine Grin.

fashionqueen0123 · 11/05/2024 15:59

No one gets to 90 and thinks oh I wished I worked an extra ten hours overtime and saw my family less and took on more stress.

I remember one office I was in, turning up early or staying late was seen as a good thing. I thought it just showed bad time management myself - sitting around for the sake of it! Very frustrating. Can’t be bothered with that.