To hate this current trend that girls should be raised to be fierce and fiery but boys shouldn't??

@StarShipControl "As women, we do have to raise our expectations and we are partly, if not fully, responsible for raising the next generation, including the men."

Women are not solely responsible for policing men's behaviour.

Boys taken off to be taught about consent whereas girls are taught about how to value and stand up for themselves.

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In a society where our kids are being massively influenced by easily accessible porn and thinking this is what sex should be like, I'm 100% behind out boys having consent drilled into them.

You just chose lazy stereotype language that's all. And that's part of the problem. It's used to describe a girl behaving in a way which is often just "assertive " when a boy does it.

And in terms of shit from previous generations why do you think the world needed/still needs feminism?

For many people when equality benefits others the oppressor feels like they are losing out ...

Actually there’s possibly a good reason for prioritising female medics!

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/aug/30/female-surgeons-patient-outcomes-better-studies

I’m being a bit tongue in cheek here. But there are still more male doctors than female doctors and definitely more male doctors in specialist hospital roles, so men are not being discriminated against.

Boys get into more detentions normally because they display more negative behaviour. I certainly notice the boys will be boys attitude among some parents with boys which probably leads to misbehaviour in schools.

And boys don’t watch Andrew Tate because they get detentions at school. They watch him because they think they should be entitled to anything they want because that’s the message they’ve absorbed.

My boys think Andrew Tate is an idiot.
Both of them have had no problem with female teachers, bosses etc unlike many chippy male entitlement types.

Yeah tell that to teenage boys and see how it works out for society - then make sure you don’t moan about result.

Teenage boys do sometimes have a hard time and our current society is not easy for them.

But how is that relevant to this situation, where a mother is piqued by the fact that a child being abusive to her own is a girl? The implication is that if it were another boy it would be normal or understandable but a girl is being “allowed” to do it because of some woke conspiracy.

Trying to empower girls to not constantly submit to boys all the time isn’t a contributing factor to the problems young men have in society. Economic inequality, toxic masculinity and poor male role models are a far far bigger factor than a handful of girls becoming more assertive.

If that’s even relevant in this situation. We have no idea why this kid kicks the OP’s son. There may be all manner of reasons here. None of which excuse what she is doing. But its bizarre that OP and others have decided it must be “because feminism allows her to get away with it”.

The logic seems to be that feminism has gone too far, girls need to be put back in the submissive boxes they historically occupied and all would be well. It’s a total canard and a dangerous one.

You don’t help teenage boys grow into strong and respectful men by reinforcing the idea that they have automatic authority over girls.

I think both sexes should be raised to be strong, capable, independent and assertive (without being aggressive). They should also know their feelings matter and how to discuss them.

I do think though that there's a lot on SM about how men are being "silenced". I don't think it's true, I think it's the men who don't like the idea of equality trying to stir up unrest.

I also see a lot on SM of these "trad wives" or women bragging about staying home while their husband pays for everything.

I don't believe either of these things are the norm, and I certainly hope not as the mother of a little girl. But I think all we can do is raise decent people (regardless of sex) and hope for things to be ok.

I think this, which has been quoted many times upthread is untrue and potentially damaging ‘If you are used to privilege, equality seems unfair’.

This might be true for a male of my age but just isn’t for children or teens. They are used to girls being favoured. What they are seeing is:

Girls massively outperforming boys at school but adults seeing this as great.

Boys taken off to be taught about consent whereas girls are taught about how to value and stand up for themselves.

Fully 2/3 of new medics being female.

Boys getting by far the most detentions in school and picked up for more infractions (which is the subject of this thread).

If you have sons and tell them that this is some form of payback for years of patriarchal rule and how the gender pay gap still widens post 35 or after having children, this doesn’t help them navigate the teenage years and feel unfair (because it is).

And where do these boys end up? Watching the likes of Andrew Tate and being obsessed with bulking up at the gym.

In terms of political attitudes, feelings about relationships etc etc, teenagers and young adults are more split by sex than they have been in a very long time. This isn’t a good thing. The reasons are complex but adults need to be open to discussing them and building both boys and girls up to be equal confident people.

I agree, but look what happens when we try to raise our children in an equal society. WOMEN create threads like this on behalf of their sons. A previous poster nailed it, when a patriarchal society is so entrenched, equality is daunting.
The result of that is women and girls get told to get back into their 'be kind' box.
Society is really reluctant to hold men and boys responsible. Proof of that is seen over and over again on this very site. Apparently, its up to us to solve any of their problems too.

Yes, my boys think all of this too.

I managed this despite having a husband who wanted a support human rather than an equal partner. Possibly because I always accepted all their emotions including vulnerability, but also had clear boundaries of expecting respect while also treating them with respect.

I was also lucky that neither of them got into a crowd where toxic masculinity was a thing so I’m lucky there.

Point being it is possible to break the cycle with decent parenting and some luck but it’s not just a problem for women to solve.

I have boys and a girl and this is not what I see at all. I suspect that you watched one or two videos on this which has skewed what the algorithms show you.

For a period, I got videos on schools not taking complaints about girls being harassed by boys seriously until the parents of the girl pointing out that what happened to their daughter is sexual harassment and a female teacher victim would be treated very differently but that’s because I watched one story and the algorithm fed me more.

Agree with this after your initial drip feed.

Your opening post however is a sweeping generalisation and not helpful

Oh and when people talk about actual equality it's doesn't mean everything is ye same. It means actively appropriately removing barriers that hold some people back to create a more level playing field

This comes from a lack of empathy and consideration. If a man can't be considerate to a woman he's meant to love and chosen to have a family with then what hope is there.
I see this as being rooted in what they themselves saw at home and how they never saw their mother considered and they themselves never had to consider their mother. It's like she's never a person in her own right, doesn't deserve to be spoiled on Mother's Day or birthdays or even Christmas.
How many times have we seen those threads?
As women, we do have to raise our expectations and we are partly, if not fully, responsible for raising the next generation, including the men.

Also and for too long the outcome of young men sticking up for themselves often means they use their fists and people get hurt

I'm really heartened to see the mums of boys I know bringing up young men who who are compassionate, considerate and still strong of character. ❤️

And agree that the nice balance with this better outcome is it's ok for boys to talk about their feelings and not feel they have to become mini Andrew Tates

It's not about pitting one against the others but more so our girls know being kind isn't the most important thing and that they should enforce their boundaries and not accept any shit we wouldn't expect our boys to take

Interesting you have interpreted this as = Girls being drama queens. I mean gendered stereotype language like that is part of this whole problem

If some of our young men are following toxic role models then we as a society need to ask why, how did that opportunity arise?

It often starts in the home and they witness it from being babes in arms. A mother running herself ragged while the man of the house lives his best life.
Boys and girls both learn from this model. It negatively affects both doesn't it? Just in very different ways.

I don’t think you need to worry - if you take a stroll down any street clothing aisle the message is loud and clear - girls are good, flowerly, gentle and kind. “Be kind” “only good vibes” and boys are brave and adventurous “be strong” “Adventurous”

Once you start noticing it - you can’t stop noticing it.

And in return you’ve done him a favour - he’s capable, he can look after himself, he doesn’t spend his life in a state of defensiveness or paranoia about women merely living their lives (hopefully!).

Nope. I will continue to tell my boy that there no injustice in women's rights, and if he has a problem with that, he can sort himself out. Working fine so far. He cooks, cleans and looks after himself without feeling like I need to fix anything for him. And thinks Andrew Tate is a moron.

Tbh I just don’t care. I feel I’ve devoted more than enough of my life to men in general - putting up with their nonsense, being a support human, tolerating their need for dominance. I’m done with it and I’m not going to rush to try to help them now they’re feeling all sad and hard done by because women won’t wait on them any more. Happy to take care of and guide my own son but I’m not going to take part in any movement to elevate men

Yeah tell that to teenage boys and see how it works out for society - then make sure you don’t moan about result.

it’s not exactly the most intelligent approach is it?