Do Italians hate the English or is it the language barrier?

I've spoken Castillian spanish in Calalunya loads of times and never had this.
We went to a restaurant local to home last week and had shocking service. Sometimes it happens. I speak several European languages. My husband doesn't speak any but will try with pleasantries and we've never had anything that we could honestly say is down to nationality. Sometimes bad service is just that

That sounds a lot like your FIL looking for confirmation bias. I don't know a single Italian who gives a damn about the British Empire - I'd be amazed if that was behind the hostility that OP has reported.

Well if it was the case that Spanish treated the English badly because of their colonial history - they maybe need to look back at their own history (the Americas). Not that I think that would have been the reason. Some countries possibly but it would be just daft in Spain .

This popped up on my FB feed today, and it made me think, lol

https://fb.watch/r-fSbu_m6Z/

So tricky isn't it! We were recently in Denmark and I spent about 5 months on duolingo learning the language and was feeling pretty confident about it. When we got there everyone would speak to us in immaculate English, even after I started the conversation in Danish. So I guess my Danish was ropey and we had the fish out of water look about us haha.
It doesn't sound like you had a very nice experience. Could it also be that our culture is so overly engrained with manners. Pleases and thank yous and sorrys in every sentence, queuing and all the rest? Maybe its just not like that over there? I've been to France many times and always find them brash and rude, its only when you try to speak French that they ease up on you but try queuing in a shop... its touch and go 😂😅

I was going to say, that DH might want to learn a little spanish history...

England tried to take over the world and treated indigenous populations abominably in the process.

Spain also tried to take over the world - succeeded with most of South America (why are the Catalans so averse to the Spanish dialect?), as did Italy (Romans), as did the French, as did the Dutch, as did the Belgians in the Congo - who were far crueller, as did the Portuguese, etc.

Think of all the non-European countries which speak European languages.

Having a decent sized coast and navy did the job.

There’s your evidence.

Interesting thread - I am half English half Italian but don’t sound like a native speaker in Italian.

My Italian family lives in Rome and as beautiful as it is, I think it is a mixed bag.

When I visited years ago with my Indian ex we did sit in an empty restaurant totally ignored and then left without ordering. Another time a restaurant running scams on Piazza Navona tried to make us pay extra and feel threatened about how much tip we should leave - they do it to a lot of people it seems when I then read the Google reviews. No doubt there are touristy places like this all over the world.

Generally however - and I can only speak for Rome - like everywhere else there are lovely down to earth and friendly people and not so lovely people. I think there are quite significant cultural differences however. And without a doubt Venice and parts of Rome and Florence amongst other places are overrun with tourists. The rudest thing I have found is people standing in the doorways of empty buses and not budging to let you on as they are so worried about not getting off at their own later stop. Then looking askance when you try to squeeze past them - why??

The thing I find hardest on a personal level is sometimes being looked at with mistrust when they hear my fluent but accented Italian. I love Italy and identify as half Italian, but in Italy I am simply a foreigner. And get told this often. In England it would be rude IMO to constantly refer to someone as an outsider / foreigner.

But no doubt Italians would find the less formal English ways strange and as someone said upthread theirs is a conservative society and I would add also pretty rule bound. And though things are better than they were, they are also behind in their acceptance of an increasingly multicultural society - London is a far more tolerant and cosmopolitan place than Rome for example - even though Rome is getting there IMO. There are now a million second generation Italians, and they are not going to put up with not being considered Italian. Ghali who performed during San Remo being a case in point.

Overall I would say that it is easier to strike up a conversation with an Italian person than with an English one - and I like that ease of communication. It doesn’t always lead to friendship however and people are generally very attached to their family in the first instance of course, followed by their oldest standing friendship groups.

Anyway rambling now apologies!

Not defending rudeness of course, but just wanted to add how hard a tourist season can be for workers. I grew up in a very touristy area in Italy and everyone lives directly or indirectly from tourism. A wide range of tourists mostly Germans, Swiss, Austrians, Italians, some English and Dutch. The season is long now, many Hotels are now open 9-10 months. When I was a child, there were open for 6-8 months. Workers work 5-6 days a week, often late shifts and salaries in Italy are LOW. My friend’s dad is near retirement age and struggling with late shifts. He works in a very expensive spa Hotel but earns around €2K a month for 6 days a week.
He does not get paid when the Hotel is closed. Most Hotels in my area are family owned, the families do very well (several sports cars, long haul business class holidays several times a year, designer bags etc), the workers rarely get pay rises or a bonus.

workers have to smile, be friendly and chatty and polite at all times for 8-10 hour shifts. A lot of the younger workers take drugs to cope especially those working in the kitchens. My friend’s brother was a chef who is now in rehab with a cocaine problem. he couldn’t cope with 16 hour shifts under immense pressure.
All the local beauty spots are overrun by tourists and instagrammers and the roads are blocked half the summer. Yes tourism brought a lot of wealth to the area but for the average local it comes with many downsides too.

Italy is on my list of places to visit. In fact it's next up and I've followed this thread with interest. I learned Italian about six years ago to a good level but I'd need to really brush up again. I would not want to go without being able to speak a little of the language. I speak a little bit of French and noticed some hostility from a minority, probably no different to how it is in England where some staff are good, some bad. When I went to Spain I made the major mistake of learning Spanish but forgetting I was in the Catalan area. I definitely had some very angry responses from waiters. He shouted the correct pronunciation of water back at me and spat as he said it. DH's dad was fluent in them all and always said they assumed he was English and were much nicer when he said no I'm Irish. DH says it is because England tried to take over the world and treated indigenous populations abominably in the process.

I can imagine that in the super touristy areas locals might just get a bit fed up in general. Places like Venice for example, which apparently is being ruined by excess visitors but which also heavily relies on tourism for the economy.

having said that, I worked in hospitality for many years and dealt with countless tourists who couldn’t speak a word of English… lots of pointing at menus and miming what they need… I wouldn’t have dreamt of behaving in the way some people have described on here. And I’d probably have been fired if I had 😂 everyone has bad days but I don’t think there’s an excuse for rudeness on either side.

To be fair though while I've spent a lot of time in Italy (loads of family there so about 20% of my life) I've never really spent time in the south. And I've only been to Rome twice. So maybe it depends where you go?

Honestly I'm shocked at how many people think Italians aren't friendly. They're super friendly and generous. they all do that thing where they sneakily get the bill and pay while you go to the loo. Or they fight because they all want to pay!

I’m American and did not have an auspicious visit to Italy (I was shoved out of the way by a priest in the Vatican 🤨). I’m reserving judgment because I only visited Rome.

I can say I wandered up to a train ticket counter and a grumpy worker had a poor French woman in tears. After watching the exchange for a few minutes in my painfully broken elementary French I asked if I could help so she spoke to me in Franglish which I repeated to my boyfriend in full English who then translated to the grumpy ticket man in basic Italian. At the end of it she got a ticket. We then got ours.

I still wonder about that poor woman…I hope she got to wherever she was aiming and has not been on an epic journey for all of these years!

Ime speaking a tiny bit of Italian is massively appreciated- we’ve always found that people are incredibly kind as soon as we try, even if they have to bail us out and finish the conversation in English. It’s definitely worth making the effort, especially as it’s a beautiful language and actually quite easy to learn- it’s massively easier than French for English ears. Very simple, consistent grammar and pronunciation, and relatively easy to get used to listening to it and picking words out, because they articulate so clearly.

Quite a few years ago, first night in France I ordered our meal in my very poor school girl French and apologised that I spoke French so badly

The waitress answered in her excellent English along the lines of at least I'd tried. She was quite disparaging about the Italians they'd had in the week before who just pointed at what they wanted from the menu

It could be because you don't speak the language, but I don't think it is acceptable.

I thought exactly this at a hotel in Sorrento in 2019 - the waiters, the receptionists, the bar staff - were just really “off” and unhelpful to our family (the only English people there) - while being perfectly pleasant to guests of other nationalities.

Op, in general I find Spain to be friendlier than Italy. I think some Italians are proud due to their Roman history. So maybe explore Spain next time - Sun, sea, architecture, and great food. And if you go to cities, they are happy to talk in English especially the younger ones. Viva España 😃
And if you want very friendly locals, who are not expecting you to learn their language, go to India.

I agree with this.

@AllProperTeaIsTheft - I'd be amazed if you got to speak any Danish. Pretty much everyone speaks English and if you've not got perfect danish pronunciation they'll think you're incomprehensible. The best I've ever managed is having someone reply to me in German, I've never had a response in Danish.

Do mumsnetters really learn conversational spanish/french/croatian/greek/arabic/dutch etc when they are off to their one week holiday? Don’t think so.

I do, when I go to a country whose language I don't already speak! But tbh I am not very widely travelled and I speak French, German, Spanish and a bit of Italian. I didn't learn much Greek when I went to a Greek island years ago, bjt certainly a smattering of useful phrases. I'm loving learning Danish. I'm only going for a week and no doubt they'll all speak perfect English

I can't carry a conversation in any other language but I wouldn't go to any non- English speaking country without learning the following in their local language:

Hello/goodbye
Please/thank you
(Speak) English?
(Very) good
Yes/no

In the case of the major European languages, you've probably heard most of the words before in movies etc. anyway. But it's not difficult to learn either way - can be done on the plane over if needed.

Or Google Translate will do it all for you.

I just can't imagine walking into someone's place of business and prattling away at them in a language that isn't theirs, let alone get miffed when they don't respond positively.

But some posters told Op to not generalise her opinion on a group of people based on her experiences in Italy. So why the English people as whole are getting that generalisation. As a foreigner, I find it interesting that English people justify judgements against English people. Usually when it happens to other nationalities and ethnicities, they come in defence of their people as a group but not English or British.

@OneForTheToad I was in Austria and whenever Brexit was mentioned they were generally in favour of it.
We were on holiday at a hotel we'd been to quite a few times in Austria not long after the Brexit vote. Many of the staff were in favour and wished they had done the same, some even shook our hands!

Good point someone made unthread, we have been mistaken for Americans in Italy. DH is Jewish, favoured loud checked shorts and always had a big camera round his neck 😹

I remember going on holiday to Italy in the 90s and we were warned about the rude and miserable staff in the campsite shop. However, I speak reasonable Italian and when I went in there and asked for what I wanted in Italian they were lovely. I was a teenager doing A levels in French, Spanish and German so learning enough Italian to get by was important to me. I’d never travel anywhere without learning the basics.