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AIBU?

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Do Italians hate the English or is it the language barrier?

369 replies

SoreFeets · 10/05/2024 06:02

Currently in beautiful Italy. Love it here but we appear to be hated by the staff in most places, especially food/drink settings.

This week alone we’ve had receipts thrown at us, we went to pay for a coffee in a little shop and the woman wouldn’t even look at us, took the money, looked really pissed off and immediately moved on to the next customer without a word (but was happy and smiley with them).

DH hired some bikes and had the keys thrown at him without a word.

Last night in a restaurant the waiters were deliberately tending every table but ours until DH caught the attention of one of them - waiter then took our drinks order but when we tried to order food he threw the menus back onto the table and walked off!! He then said something to another waiter who looked at us and laughed. Nobody came back to take the food order.

Now this exact same thing happened in Rome a few years ago, everyone just seemed to hate us. We would try to book a table in a restaurant and they would say it was full … before letting someone else in 😂

so I looked it up last night and I found no suggestion of Italians having a problem with English …. But what I did find was Italians have no time for people who have not bothered to learn the language.

Is this the problem? I have tried to learn a bit of Italian before coming but nowhere near enough which is obviously my fault. DH doesn’t speak a word of Italian other than Grazie.

We’re coming back next year and I aim to be practically fluent in Italian in that time! AIBU to think/hope we’ll have a totally different experience?

OP posts:
FlakyPoet · 12/05/2024 15:28

Calliecarpa · 12/05/2024 12:23

I agree with this. I lived in Germany for many years, and if I had a euro for every time someone told me that 'English beat German by one vote to be the official language of the US', I'd have, well, an awful lot of euros. I've just googled to see where this massively popular but untrue urban legend comes from, and it actually has a name (according to Wikipedia anyway), the 'Muhlenberg legend', if anyone wants to read about it!

I remember once, a long time ago, chatting to this man from the Netherlands, whose English was so good he pretty well sounded like a native speaker, but was moaning about how unfair it was that native English speakers had privilege over everyone else who had to learn it as a foreign language. I pointed out that it was a bit daft for a white, straight, able-bodied man who had all the advantages of growing up in one of the richest and most developed countries in the world to be complaining about unearned privilege, but he had a real bee in his bonnet about it.

That’s so interesting about the Muhlenberg legend!

Travelling across I was surprised how many German place names there are in America and how influenced the culture is - especially the food - hot dogs, sauerkraut, hamburgers, doughnuts, rye bread, pretzels - also the children going to ‘kindergarten’, and singing O Tannenbaum, so I thought there might be some back story to the claim.

It is getting really old - people like this Dutch guy whinging about the English language being so widely spoken. When I had a car breakdown in Belgium, I simply didn’t expect everyone to speak English despite my supposed English arrogance about expecting other countries to speak it. When I needed help and asked “Do you speak English” - the affronted look I got back, with a curt “Of course” as a response, anyone would think I’d asked if they had been to school and could read and write. 😂

Februaryfeels · 12/05/2024 15:26

That was in Bardolino. They wouldn't respond to my German or Italian though. They answered in English

tridento · 12/05/2024 15:25

I think it's just you. I can't speak Italian but I love Italy. I've been to half a dozen locations over the years and love it because of how fabulously friendly and sassy the Italians are. You seem to be describing the French

Februaryfeels · 12/05/2024 15:24

Ours last year were from Salzburg. Students

fungipie · 12/05/2024 15:23

SuuzeeeQ · 12/05/2024 15:05

There are also parts of Italy (South Tyrol) where most people’s first language is German as it was part of Austria until WW1.

and in the Aosta Valley, where their first language is French.

fieldsofbutterflies · 12/05/2024 15:08

I've been to Italy dozens of times and have never experienced anything other than great hospitality.

SuuzeeeQ · 12/05/2024 15:05

Februaryfeels · 12/05/2024 14:37

That's a good point. We were there last year and half the staff were Austrian

There are also parts of Italy (South Tyrol) where most people’s first language is German as it was part of Austria until WW1.

Februaryfeels · 12/05/2024 14:37

Okayornot · 10/05/2024 08:30

The German thing is regional. In some parts of Italy they learn German at school rather than English (Germany and Austria being just up the road). Or at least that used to be the case. Not surprising really- same reason we first learn French and not something more useful, like Spanish or Mandarin.

That's a good point. We were there last year and half the staff were Austrian

decionsdecisions62 · 12/05/2024 14:34

@Gwenhwyfar yes of course 🙄

mitogoshi · 12/05/2024 14:33

On lake Como we were told multiple times they disliked the American visitors except their tips, because they treated the waiting staff like personal butlers, but they liked the English we were told as we were polite. The one thing though that did cause an issue was asking if they had decaf coffee the first morning, it was like I was asking for poison or something, they did find me a lemon and ginger teabag and I bought a box of redbush so I could just ask for hot water.

ladyvimes · 12/05/2024 14:29

I experienced the opposite. Went to Italy when I was 6 months pregnant and people were so kind and helpful. Went out of their way to offer me a chair or ask if I needed extra water etc. much more open and friendly towards me as a pregnant woman than people were in the UK. I speak no Italian at all and never experienced any rudeness or brusqueness.

mitogoshi · 12/05/2024 14:26

Never had any issues in Italy but I can just about get by in restaurants, tourist attractions etc in Italian. I've always have them speak good English when I needed it. The fact we ride an Italian motorbike seems to always put people in a good mood, they are really friendly to bikers compared to the UK

Gwenhwyfar · 12/05/2024 14:25

decionsdecisions62 · 12/05/2024 14:19

We once went to Italy with a toddler and got completely mobbed with friendliness. They were relentless. She has grey eyes and bling hair and they kept touching her head and wanting to hold her. I think if you have some common ground like a few Italian words, a smile, children then they are the friendliest people going.

Are you saying Op should create a toddler just for her next Italian holiday? Or kidnap one?

Gwenhwyfar · 12/05/2024 14:24

Calliecarpa · 12/05/2024 12:23

I agree with this. I lived in Germany for many years, and if I had a euro for every time someone told me that 'English beat German by one vote to be the official language of the US', I'd have, well, an awful lot of euros. I've just googled to see where this massively popular but untrue urban legend comes from, and it actually has a name (according to Wikipedia anyway), the 'Muhlenberg legend', if anyone wants to read about it!

I remember once, a long time ago, chatting to this man from the Netherlands, whose English was so good he pretty well sounded like a native speaker, but was moaning about how unfair it was that native English speakers had privilege over everyone else who had to learn it as a foreign language. I pointed out that it was a bit daft for a white, straight, able-bodied man who had all the advantages of growing up in one of the richest and most developed countries in the world to be complaining about unearned privilege, but he had a real bee in his bonnet about it.

Well that Dutchman was not totally wrong.

On the other hand, Dutch people's English is so good that they have a huge advantage over other Europeans (barring UK, Ireland, Malta and maybe Scandinavia).

decionsdecisions62 · 12/05/2024 14:20

Bling hair 🤣 blonde hair!

decionsdecisions62 · 12/05/2024 14:19

We once went to Italy with a toddler and got completely mobbed with friendliness. They were relentless. She has grey eyes and bling hair and they kept touching her head and wanting to hold her. I think if you have some common ground like a few Italian words, a smile, children then they are the friendliest people going.

Gwenhwyfar · 12/05/2024 14:17

WalrusOfLove · 10/05/2024 16:17

It's interesting to note that other cultures being rude to brits because of minor cultural differences in etiquette (not greeting a shopkeeper etc) are brushed off, but if the reverse happened here it'd most likely be deemed racism/xenophobia.

But a Brit going into a small shop like a butchers or bakery would say hello. I don't think there's a huge difference there.

Discsareshit · 12/05/2024 14:16

RandomButtons · 10/05/2024 13:21

Ordering a latte after breakfast of the wrong wine with food. Italians are very passionate about food and drink.

Ive always had great reception from Italians. Lovely people.

Edited

I thought it was the capuccinos they were precious about.

As for eating at strange times, I've always found that a good thing to do on holiday as a single person. Restos are happy to have me then as I'm not taking up a table that would otherwise be for two or a group.

Saying hello, of course that's basic.

Gwenhwyfar · 12/05/2024 14:14

SherrieElmer · 10/05/2024 12:24

There is a certain level of disdain towards the English all over continental Europe caused by the appalling behaviour of all the lads and ladettes causing trouble wherever they go.

How many times have your heard about planes having to be diverted because a Dutch or a French person were being unruly ? None.

In Spain they make fun of the bloody idiots that fall off the balconies every summer. They have a saying down there along the lines of it is not officially summer until the first brit has plummeted from a balcony. How many Germans or Swiss do the same? None.

Edited

This is in certain places only. It's not relevant to all touristy places.

Gwenhwyfar · 12/05/2024 14:11

"• Restaurant owners really hate customers who see eating pasta as the main meal and clog up the tables taking ages over eating it. The pasta course is not supposed to be instead of the expensive meat and fish mains. It wouldn’t surprise me if Brits are the worst for doing this."

I've never had a problem doing this. I did a whole week in Umbria having starter and pudding without a single complaint and lots of friendly chatting. My friend spoke Italian, but the waiters prefer to show off their English, French, Spanish and German.
They must know that not everyone can handle their four course meals.

I can imagine that Lake Garda is so busy that the attitude might be different though...

curlywurlymum · 12/05/2024 14:10

We go every year and we do so because of how friendly we found the Italians! Incredibly funny, warm and upbeat nation.

The French on the other side… 😔

Gwenhwyfar · 12/05/2024 14:04

SudExpress · 10/05/2024 09:31

No Italian school teaches German instead of English. The autonomous regions have 2 official languages used in schools but their official MFL language is English.
The Italian ministry of education stipulates that, in line with the CEFR for languages across Europe, Italian school kids will be at level B2 when they go into their fifth and final year.
Linguistic high schools offer a second and third MFL and students are expected to get to B1 level by 17 in those.

If any school offers German instead of English (as a MFL not as language used in schools) it must be private.

Decades ago they had French as their first MFL but it's been at least 30 years since that was the case.

I spent a few weeks in Friui Venezia Giulia. People there spoke German and even some Slovenian (or it could have been Croatian, but the bordering one) and very little English. Totally logical considering the location.

Gwenhwyfar · 12/05/2024 14:01

Ginmonkeyagain · 10/05/2024 08:45

Sometimes it is just a bad experience of one or two people.

We Londoners have a terrible reputation for being rude, which is a little unfair. Just this morning I and a fellow passenger on my train this morning helped out a couple with very limited English who has got on the wrong train and were a bit distressed. Most humans are ok.

Regarding Italy, I have always found it fine and perfectly friendly. Sometimes waiters are a bit rushed and abrupt in the bigger cities but that is the same everywhere. I remember being a bit intimidated by the confusing rules in bakeries and delis in Rome but apart from that!

I've had some bad experiences in London, but I understand it's likely to do with the high-stress, rushing everywhere environment of a very large city and not a reflection on Londoners being either better or worse people than anyone else.

Gwenhwyfar · 12/05/2024 13:58

StarlightLady · 10/05/2024 08:18

I was born in the UK, brought up in France and regularly travel to Singapore for work. I don’t think any complete race gates another. That said, the attitude of some might be reflected by their personal experiences. There is still a lot of “they don’t do it the same as home” attitude by visitors from the UK.

Alcohol (and l love a glass or 2 of wine) has often become a problem with Brits abroad and it can be reflected with local attitudes. Embrace the culture, when they are not busy(so not a waiter in a busy restaurant at dinner), maybe ask them questions about their town/language. Then l think you will find a different response.

Brits and alcohol is definitely an issue in some places, but not really in most of Italy. This doesn't explain it imo.

Gwenhwyfar · 12/05/2024 13:57

badwolf82 · 10/05/2024 07:15

Do you speak any other languages other than English? My trick for pleasant service in Europe is to try to speak the local language, then switch to my second language if that’s not going well, and then finally settle on English since almost nobody in Europe speaks my second language.

I do find that having some basic phrases like hello, can I please order x, thank you, apologies I don’t speak x language etc go a long way.

That's totally not my experience. As a pp has noted, in very touristy areas all customer service people speak English and the last thing they want to do is help you with your basic Italian (or whatever). You'd have to intermediate at least to be better than them in English.

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