Do you “let” your kids speak to you like shit

I think I am WAY more lax on this than other people. I wouldn't like to be sworn at e.g. called a fucking bitch (but, touch wood, that's never happened) but I don't mind them saying things like "That's so stupid" or "You're so annoying" when they are frustrated, and I don't object to tone, huffing/sighing, or saying things like "Why do I even have to do that?" or "I have to do everything around here!" (though the last might provoke a laugh!)

However I don't engage in a conversation if they are in that mood. I say something like "Look, you're too riled up to discuss this now/this isn't going anywhere productive. Let's both cool down a bit and talk about this later."

If they can be polite with others, then they know what to do and IME they will do it when it's necessary. I have worried in the past that DS1 might roll his eyes and huff at other adults who are supposed to be an authority figure but it doesn't seem to have been a problem.

ASD parent raising an ASD child.

we don’t have different rules for children and adults. We speak to our child like we speak to one another and expect her to do the same. We have managed to raise a teenager who is very polite, but who can also hold an adult conversation.

Demand avoidance/reactivity is very hard to deal with. I mean they HAVE to put on their shoes/brush their teeth/go to school don't they. It's a tough thing to deal with OP. Especially when you have another child who responds to the basics of parenting and doesn't battle you.

If its any consolation, my sons college do always tell me that outside that little bit of teen attitude, he's generally a polite, pleasant, helpful young man, which is nice :)

DD meanwhile at 15 is in that stage of getting detentions for swearing at the kids annoying her in class, so we've had to have a sit down and a chat about her finding ways to redirect/mitigate her anger before it gets to 'piss off' point.

I do spend some time when they're in the mood for it, discussing feelings/reactions/how words/tone make others feel.

I know people say pick your battles but to me this is one I'd fight.
This is something I came down really hard with both my children and I pulled their behaviour and their attitude up from an early age.
My children are adults now and apart from sulky tantrums on their teens they have never spoken to me or their dad disrespectful.
I took the view of ' if they do this at 8 and I tolerate it, what will they be like at 15'
I understand that you have the complication of ADHD but that doesn't mean you can't put boundaries in place and keep reinforcing them.

I could have written this post too - DD is nearly 8, we’re under Early help and looking at ADHD pathway.
Last night when I told the kids to come up to bed, DD retorted “FINE, idiot!” - but she was going up the stairs to bed.
I remember reading that if they are following instruction, to let the rudeness go to an extent, as they’re just letting off steam (transitions are still hard for her.) However my husband did intervene to tell her off.

That said, when her being rude to me was more frequent I resorted to the consequences- losing screen time. But
with DD these “consequences” escalate things so badly, she’ll start throwing things, raging. But I felt I couldn’t keep letting it go.

Interesting a PP said about implementing consequences in a ways that’s not “reactive” and the child doesn’t feel a victim. This is exactly how it comes across to DD so really helpful advice.
I know the Explosive child/our Early Help advisor suggests working with the child on a contract when they’re calm to tackle the issue, so they contribute to devising the appropriate consequence.
following for any other advice!

I say 'I'd like you to adjust your tone and then come back to me' every time. Using the 'I' statement takes the emphasis off them being 'wrong' but puts the lens on what I won't accept. So if they say 'Get me a drink' or 'No, I am not doing [my request], you are being annoying' I say 'I'd like you to adjust your tone and then come back to me' before it escalates. They go off, usually get their own drink/think about their own part in the interaction and then come back to me being more reasonable.

It has got to the point where DS2 (now 16) actually self corrects and says 'I need to adjust my tone don't I?' DD however, still rails against it but I am a master of grey rock and have a voice in my head that I am actually just teaching them respectful human interaction and I am not being horrible and this isn't about me being a horrible mum.

My DD has suspected ADHD and I really struggle with this; I don’t “let” her do it but it’s exhausting always picking her up on it as it can lead to a meltdown when otherwise things are calm.
I try to go down the route of saying “did you mean to be so rude/did you mean to use that tone of voice” or I’ll just look at her and say calmly “excuse me” and she knows.
I really try to praise when I see her remember to ask her siblings to move nicely etc rather than just a “move!”

Remember that choosing not to punish us not the same as accepting or approving.

You can’t actually gag your child, therefore they will say things you don’t like.

All you need to do is say ‘ I don’t like that’, a move on.

Respond positively and speedily to polite requests. Move more slowly- if at all- for rude requests.

Use plenty of reminders about polite, respectful communication.

And wait for things to improve. They will.

I used to tell mine to treat me as politely as their grandma. That stopped the swearing.

with mine being teens now there is a bit of
"Oi" "Pardon?" "Excuse me!" "Ahem!" and "Language!" that i use to just.. nudge/remind.

On occasion i will tell them if they can't be nice/polite, to go and be rude by themselves in their rooms.

my two used to go "DRINK!" at me.

My response was usually to just carry on what i was doing and without batting an eyelid say something like "I'm sure i heard something, but can't be my kids, my kids know how to ask for things nicely"

and they'd generally go UGH at me, then ask a bit more politely, usually with an attitude, but i let that slide for a 'please'

It’s definitely picking battles.

Never name calling or swearing.

Regarding tone of voice it depends on context. Are they shattered after school? Are they struggling with school work? Friendship issues?

But direct challenge gets challenged back and then we will discuss it when they have calmed down

protesting about something is different and can be let go if not too bad.

My 10 year old is VERY hormonal so I have a lot of understanding when her moods switch but we always talk about it after - when she is in a different mood.

They are not robots and will always push boundaries it’s their nature.

But being rude for the sake of being a little arse gets nipped in the bud pronto

I always find touching them when you see they are starting to be an arse is really helpful, a random cuddle, ruffle of hair asking about their day/game can bring them back to earth a bit

I wouldn't let it go, as in your home you are preparing them to go out into the world. I would make my reaction boring and repetative, though, so as not to add fuel to an already difficult situation, and so that the rudeness isn't being rewarded by a big reaction.

I wouldn't let it go but I also wouldn't try to tackle it it that moment.

Similar strategy to ignoring a het up toddler until they're calm and then speaking to them later about it.

I am autistic and DC is autistic / ADHD. Tone is INCREDIBLY hard to judge as an autistic child because it varies depending on situation. Throw in difficulty recognising hierarchy and you have exactly the situation you describe.

We try to make an exaggerated joke of it where possible otherwise you get into this cycle of DC being dysregulated, being rude, us getting cross, DC getting more dysregulated and less able to communicate politely etc etc. So when we hear "Drink!" I might respond with "Did I just hear "mother darling, when you have a spare moment might I request a cold beverage please?"" When she is regulated she will sometimes replicate the exaggerated phrasing.

Calling people annoying - is he having this said to him at school? ND kids at that age will often be told by their peers that they are annoying (probably because we are) and if the ND child is upset by it the NT kids will reassure them they were "just joking." And obviously everyone enjoys a joke, right, so calling people annoying is okay particularly because you can see others saying things that could be unkind but are clearly being said and received in good humour. It's an absolute minefield and with awareness of that I would probably model some responses for him. "You're so annoying!" "I know darling, I practice every day." I would try to avoid joining on the same level of dysregulation as then both of you feel like crap.

I'm also a parent of ND children. This is some advice I was given:
Consequences

1. Use language of accountability and be clear, concise and concrete in connecting the “crime” to the consequence. (It is not necessary to rehash the sequence of events, that is most likely ngoing to make things worse because it causes shame about words/behaviours.)
2. Consequences should always be accompanied by a “clean up” that fits the “crime”. Ideally, the kid chooses the clean-up. Clean ups are not an additional punishment. They go hand in hand with consequences.
3. The “clean up” is more important and meaningful than the consequence.

Currently 15 and 17, which is why its now adapted slightly with me giving a little attitude back.. they're old enough to take it xD

But when they were younger i worked heavily with the method of
ask not to do it
tell not to do it
warn a repeat will result in X
carry X out.

I mixed it up with 1,2,3 magic where you count at them, so you start with "1, and if i get to 3 x, will happen" and next gets a "2! don't make me get to 3 or X will happen" and then 3 is obviously 'punishment'

After a while you need only go "1" and they tend to quiet down, or mine did xD

our relationship at the moment is rubbish with him being told off and given consequences 1000 a day. And I seriously worry about him developing a conduct disorder because of it

The speaking to you like shit is a symptom of the relationship's current state. He can choose his words and his tone, he does it with other people.

Cut him some slack, your fear of him developing a conduct disorder is taking you off course. Focus on what is today, not what might happen down the line, because you can often bring it into being inadvertantly. Try and bring yourself down, way down, nobody needs "consequences" 1000 times a day. Try to position yourself along side him, rather than opposite him. You're doing this together for the long haul, and he's a person with his own path, not a project for you to finish and get right.

How To Talk To Kids is a classic, I also rate Phillipa Perry The Book You Wish Your Parents Had Read for a bit of perspective.