Do you “let” your kids speak to you like shit

Yes. Oh dear. I think I got lulled into a false sense of security with the first few responses and I'm going to get piled on by the "take no prisoners" crew

Oh well. Must remember the hide thread button if it starts to raise my blood pressure.

There is a book called Who's In Charge by Eddie Gallagher which is about violence towards parents and how to prevent it and he does have a huge bit about swearing/disrespect towards parents.

The whole book is ridiculously, insanely over-long, but it does have some useful pointers in if you do feel like this has gone too far or want to discourage/nip it in the bud. Skip most of it because it is utter waffle, but the chapters about acceptable behaviour and consequences are very good - much better than anything else I've read about how to apply consequences.

The gist is that basically, you have to give them something so that you have something to take away, and then it has to be divided carefully into increments so you end up doing things like 10p fines for swearing - which sounds like they wouldn't give a shit about it but apparently it does actually work quite well and it can also lead to a bit more of a jokey/silly attitude around it where you can say things like "Keep going, you're saving me loads of money!" and takes the tension out of a situation. (There are lots more pointers about how to keep it calm, light and not increasing the tension/volatility in a situation).

Which, I guess, is also what the non response/no different rules for children vs adults (broadly) does.

If they know they can get you all riled up by swearing, then that's an unreasonable amount of power for them to have, if they know they can get you upset or worried or intimidated by swearing then again, it's too powerful. If you overpower them, that might work but it's precarious/temporary - depending on what's driving them to do it in the first place, it can be that overpowering them only works until such time as they break the taboo of the next level of power, which could be violence or self-harm.

I think it is likely also important, certainly for the "no different rules" approach, to make space for them to get their voice heard in a calmer/more acceptable way - if they feel like the only time anyone ever listens to them is when they rant and rave, then they're more likely to rant and rave (sounds like a familiar feeling as a parent, TBF!) Of course that doesn't mean that you have to give them everything if they ask for it nicely, but making sure you do spend some time listening and taking their feelings into account is important IMO.

Ah having to do something is just ignore and continue to tell him to get it done.

That’s protest behaviour - I don’t mind that and very common

Meanness to brother not ok.

When he starts being agnostic ( or can see when mine are revving up) that’s when I’ll try and distract by touching in a soothing way and trying to find a connection. To avoid them all being bollocked

The frilly comment made me laugh, that's the kind of twattish comment I'd have made a few years ago (albeit in my head...) having a SN child really does open your mind.

Yes that's true.

I find Facebook groups of parents with DC with same diagnosis can be helpful.

I have 1 with ASD / ADHD and politeness and respect is a hill i will die on. I pick them up on it each and every time. Ranged from when they were younger with

“sorry mummy understand rude children”

to now, teens

“would you like to say that again because Im sure I heard something rude coming out of your mouth”

and “I’m sorry I don’t understand”

my kids are 99% of the time polite. Manners and respect are utterly non negotiable and I simply will not have rudeness. It took my ASD ADHD child a long time to get there and to understand but no o will not have rudeness and certainly not in an 8 year old

Did I hear "gosh, I fear this approach would not work for me and consequently would neither use nor endorse it" ? 😁

What does your second sentence mean - "they value being able to sit down"?

OP, I am lucky in that my daughter has barely ever (so far) challenged me in this way but I do have some experience of this kind of challenge as a teacher. And I tend instinctively to be too quick to reprimand I think, when it's just tone of voice or whatever, because I am naturally irritable and don't like being spoken to in a way I perceive as rude

But I remind myself that I have frequently clashes with partners too over their tone of voice (for example) so it could be that my threshold for thinking I am being addressed rudely is quite low. So now I try to consider whether the person (child or adult) has actually intended to give offence, before I jump in. Obviously you can't know for sure, but you can make a pretty good guess 90% of the time. Deliberate rudeness needs challenging, but I think more careless rudeness can be gently flagged without a big deal being made. After all, you have to think of your own well being too - living in permanent conflict is exhausting.

AIBU may not be the place for this, OP.

You need ND-informed advice.

I get so bored of people suggesting authoritarian solutions on here.

You would likely find those of us with ND kids are quite the reverse of "frilly pushover parents."

We are parenting kids with unusually low impulse control and who are often constantly triggered by things in the environment.

Thing with ADHD is stuff can go straight from brain out of mouth and it takes longer than "normal" to get control of that so you do have to pick your battles or as you say, you will have constantly negative interactions.

As well as excuse me, the oldies such as 'what's the magic word?' etc.

I do find myself doing this a fair but with my GCSE students tbh and they certainly don't all have ADHD...in fact the two definitely with ADHD are among the more polite!

Absolutely not. I have brought my children up to respect other people (and to expect respect themselves) and the slightest hint of unkindness or snappiness gets stamped on. As a result, it happens very rarely.
Friends' kids are regularly rude to them, because there are no consequences.

Oh mine are smart, why i said 'occasionally'.

It's not a matter of being good for a bit, i use it as a bargaining chip to get them to do something useful i need doing.

So.. want that 20 minute tablet 'sin bin' cancelled. Tidy your room. help me with my chores for 10 mins, fill the drinks up/set the table, take the laundry baskets upstairs, empty the bins...etc. Generally something that'll take 20 mins xD

Oh I hear you.

Definitely decide which hills you will die on with this.

I find a rapid "EXCUSE me"? can work well.

I often get complimented on her manners by people outside the house...

I had zero tolerance for rudeness but no ND children.

I would give one warning for any form of rudeness, then we will leave activity and go straight home, it worked, we had to leave a party once ,resulting in many tears but message received and it didn't happen again.

Now as teens there is no family bad language beyond the odd irritable comment, !
Being an older parent l was not prepared to live in chaos with rude badly behaved children so l suppose this dictated my parenting, and if consistent it avoids losing your temper as you are listened to if they know what you calmly say always happens.

This must be much harder with SEN or ND children though.

Yes - that is precisely why I never did ‘earn it back ‘ - it might work with some SC, but not with smart ones who work that out quickly.

Give them lots of choices but closed choices. Sometimes that heads off a meltdown. So when they're not wanting to put shoes on, I ask then if they're putting them on now or in the car? If it's raining and they say car, I ask them Won't your socks get wet? They might just say no so I shrug, stick extra socks in my bag and let them crack on. If you phrase it as a question and just accept their choice they tend to start making better ones.

Also never threaten anything that you aren't willing to follow through.

Jesus what frilly pushover parenting.

I know, I am the same with DS1 (he's now an adult) who just got himself up, fed, dressed and out of the door for school with ease whereas DS2 gets in the shower at 7.51am when we are due to leave the house at 8am!

But DS2 and DD have attention issues and also live between two houses so I have to gently remind myself that DS1 didn't have those challenges to bear. It's mega hard though when it's your every day life. But you are paying attention to this, discussing it on here with curiosity, musing about the impact on your parent-child relationship...you are parenting fiercely. If you weren't queued into it that would be more worrying but you are because you care about it and are being solution focussed. You should give yourself some credit for that OP.

I think one of the issues with ADHD as well is the impact to their self esteem from being continually told off, so I like some of the suggestions here around tackling afterwards not during the moment, probably much easier to have a calmer conversation than it becoming retaliatory.