***TW*** Sexual intimidation - To think that this is what almost every woman goes through.

Remember that hidden filming of an attractive woman walking along the street in think New York. The hassle she got. Could relate.

Also the weirdness of dealing with men when you are like that can’t describe the desire yet underlaid with anger. Urgh don’t miss it.

I remembered another, when I was away with a group of women (dh not with me) I politely explained to a very persistent guy (rubbing up against me etc and not desisting even though I’d moved away repeatedly) that I wasn’t interested as I was married (thought that would be easier for him to take than just plain not interested). He turned very aggressive and was shouting at me. We had to leave. Unfortunately the walk back to town was through some very quiet streets and he and his friends followed us. We had to make a run for it. It was quite terrifying.
amazingly he saw me in the city the next day I saw him pointing and talking aggressively to his friends and I’m sure he was going to come and harass me again but I think he wasn’t certain it was me (thankfully I was wearing my hair differently and had sunglasses on) so he decided against it.

It’s not just in school environments either! My work includes a fair amount of networking - and the majority of ladies on the networking scene all agree that most events most of us will have an unwelcome approach of some sort

There was a man on the board of the charity that I used to work in, and when there was a board meeting all the women would talk amongst ourselves about wearing a high neck / baggy top so he couldn't stare at our tits. Not really quite sure now why we didn't do something about it, but I guess it's that thing about feeling we wouldn't be believed or that it's something trivial we just have to put up with.

I'm not denying your experience or assuming this is going to he the same for you, sooty but your comment reminded of a conversation I once had with some friends.

A couple of them said they'd never experienced anything untoward from any men ever. The rest of us were a bit surprised having had experiences of one sort or another from prepuberty onwards.

Following further discussion, it transpired that what they actually meant was they'd never been physically sexually assaulted or raped but had experienced a lot of the 'low level' stuff that the rest of us had.

They were shocked to realise they hadn't even considered that to be a problem because it was so 'normal' and unremarkable that it just hadn't really registered as anything with them. It was all filed under stuff that just happens.

Like I say, I'm not assuming that that applies to you just that it was quite eye opening to learn that for some women it's just so much part of normal expectations of male behaviour that they haven't even recognised it for what it was.

And, tbh, I was raped when I was 20. Because I knew him, I didn't realise that's what it was. I just thought it was 'sex I hadn't wanted to have' even though I made it very clear at the time that I didn't want it. I had a bit of a light bulb moment 20 years later.

My partner and I have stopped watching films/TV programmes where VAWG esp sexual violence features. It feels like it's reduced what we can watch to almost nothing! It's just so prevalent and normalised that it's viewed by many as 'entertainment'.

And that doesn't even cover narratives where men are 'just' crossing women's boundaries under the guise of 'romantic gestures'.

YANBU.
Started in junior school onwards, I’ve only had unwanted attention, one scary event in high school but managed to get him off, the odd grope, being called frigid because I didn’t want to engage. One time my parents were getting the roof repaired and I had the usual, their faces fell when I walked up our drive way though. Instant karma. The regret was written all over their faces.

DD gets unwanted attention, stares and she’s shortly turning 8. She’s aware of it but doesn’t know why, she already hates/wary of most men. (We think this stems from childhood tests/hospital/male consultants).

Only men have ever commented on her looks, strange, random men. DH has received comments saying ‘she doesn’t get her looks from you’. Of course neither of us say anything because she’s with us.

Only one time I reacted is when the guy stroked her cheek after commenting and she recoiled.

There was a video circulating on my socials once where men were subjected to this behaviour from women. Honestly makes you feel like giving them the some of the same!

I had a man tell me if I don't want to be sexually assaulted I should just go out at a different time. I was out at 8am FFS

Too many instances to list I’d be here all day 🙄

Enjoying the invisibility of being late 40s.

@Allfur This is specifically about sexual violence and intimidation. That isn't even a blip on most men's radars.

I agree OP. I have had so many experiences that made me feel uncomfortable and threatened from probably about the age of 12 onwards. Possibly younger. I thought, like many girls growing up in the seventies and eighties, that it was just 'part of life'. Nothing in me shouted that it was wrong. In fact, I believed that my reaction was what was 'wrong' and that I wasn't normal. Because nobody told me anything different.

It is terrible I agree, but aren't males more at risk from male violence statically? Bringing up young men or young women both have worries and dangers

You’re not wrong.

I went to a single sex school so I didn’t have any issues there…. Until an early 20s lab tech tried it on when I was 16.

Thinking back, I remember having my boobs grabbed on the street at around 17/18. A couple of guys put their hand up my skirt when I was stood at a bar. I threw a drink over the second one as I became a bit more feisty then.

Then in my law career - as a trainee, one partner slapped me on the arse when I was bent over. I got another “while you’re down there” comment when I was looking in a low cupboard. Another partner grabbed my hand and put it on his crotch when he was drunk. And these are meant to be intelligent, educated people.

Oh and at 18 my own mother told me to go and flirt with the bin men so they’d take away an extra bag of rubbish.

It didn’t affect me negatively though tbh. I just thought they were all complete fucking idiots. By my mid 20s though I stopped putting up with ANY of that shit and was subsequently labelled “scary”. For having boundaries and a sense of justice.

Fun being female, innit.

I was thinking that it hasn’t happened to me either. I’ve worked in a female dominated industry my whole career and been with my husband since 18 though so that has probably protected me as an adult.
Then I remembered getting groped from behind in the city centre in a crowded market, I never even saw who did it. I was 11 and felt incredibly ashamed.
A friend and I were flashed at in a park when we were about 13. A man was wanking himself off in a car park when our school group was in a parked coach opposite. The open secret that our English teacher was a threat and you should never let yourself be alone with him.
Those, and the fact that two girls were raped and murdered in our village, the first when I was late primary age. Our freedom was very curtailed because of it. I remember policewomen coming to our guides group to give us self-defence advice.
Probably because of this, as an adult I wouldn’t dream of going out even dog walking on footpaths alone. I always keep to populated streets or busy parks in daylight. My dh goes where he likes, when he likes without ever thinking twice.

What can't be seen, can't be identified and can't be dealt with.

Exactly. Men don't do this in front of other men so they never see it. A few years ago I was walking with my partner and I crossed the road before he did. In the 30 seconds before he crossed over a bloke drove past me and shouted some gross comment out the window. My partner was absolutely flabbergasted and I had to say "yep, totally normal I'm afraid". Obviously this bloke would never have done that if my partner was stood next to me.

One day we were in the gym and my husband made a comment about he couldn't understand why there were women going there just to walk on the treadmill rather than running/other workouts. I replied 'because its safer'. Think it took a few mins for the meaning to really sink in.

I was the plain, bespectacled girl at high school. Didn't save me from the boys groping me in the corridors between classes. It's not about attraction, it's about power and intimidation. Men and boys get their nasty thrills from that. I'm glad it didn't happen to you.

@YahdahYahdayYoo you articulated that so much better than me- yes @YankSplaining this is what I meant! Apologies if I offended you it wasn’t at all my intention. x

I’m not saying it’s as black and white as that. I meant that the things here in this thread about misogyny and the treatment of women have impacted your life hugely- even if you didn’t choose those things; that’s what we are all saying. No one here has chosen any of the things we are simply saying how much of an impact on our lives it has had in various ways. When I read your first post I got the impression you were saying that none of these things had affected your life - what I garnered from your post actually was that they most definitely have; even if you don’t realise it or haven’t actively chosen some routes your life has taken. That’s exactly what systemic repression or systemic sexism or misogyny or whatever you want to call is, is. I wasn’t picking a fight etc It just lept out at me when I read your post essentially saying you didn’t feel included in these elements being described here when actually you definitely are! x

I'm 62 I expected this when I was young.
But sixty bloody two
Last year I had to report a much younger colleague for exposing himself to me repeatedly. What the hell is that all about?
He said he thought I'd find it funny. I didn't and he got a final warning. I felt so embarrassed at the meeting. I look like a 62 year old. I'm not a glamorous granny. I wondered if my boss thought I was deluded but luckily this man admitted it.
I'm just so sick of this. I've put up with this disgusting behaviour all my life.

This post exemplifes beautifully what women have to do to avoid sexual harassment.

Men don't 'get it because they don't experience it (generally). My lovely dh only thinks the rare bad men do things like that not normal run of the mill he sees daily. I've tried to educate him. What can't be seen, can't be identified and can't be dealt with.

I'm genuinely amazed there are women on here saying they and their friends have never experienced it. I must have been sexually assaulted over 20 times between the age of 15 and 25. And not just in places like nightclubs, it happened to me on a train, on a plane, at work etc. If you include sexual harassment (e.g. a lewd comment in the street) then it must be over 100 times.

I do think some women seem to attract it more unfortunately. It's not about being the most beautiful, there seems to be some things (like hourglass figures or blonde hair) that are a magnet for these dickheads. I used to have to cross the road if I ever saw a group of blokes walking towards me. Now I'm in my late thirties none of them even give me a second look, thank god.

Yeah, it was jarring. Like they had never considered men could be like this…..to other men.

Like a few others on here, this is not my experience at all @PurplePink45

I've slways had a lot of attention from boys (when younger) and men but it hasn't been the negative experiences described on here.

As an unattractive woman, my experience is slightly different - in my younger days I was used to being jeered at and insulted by men, usually strangers, when I was minding my own business, doing my best to appear inconspicuous. It was as if the men had to 'prove themselves' by loudly demonstrating to their mates that I was far below the standard they would set themselves; or, they were using me to banter with one another: 'that's your girlfriend there' etc.

Thankfully I am middle-aged and invisible now to that type of man.

It’s not just in school environments either! My work includes a fair amount of networking - and the majority of ladies on the networking scene all agree that most events most of us will have an unwelcome approach of some sort. Sometimes it’s a polite approach, sometimes it’s a man touching a bum or breast without warning, sometimes they take the hint quickly, sometimes they need a loud and embarrassing rejection.

One of the most memorable I had was on my first day back from maternity leave and the guy just kept grabbing my bum so I kept moving away to a different part of the room. Eventually I got loud about pushing him away and said (so that at least the half dozen people we were standing with could hear) “What’s the matter with you? You know I’ve just had a baby, will you please leave me alone!” His reply was that just having had a baby was part of the attraction (WTF?!). He kept turning up wherever I was for the rest of the week. He pretends it never happened now. (No alcohol involved).

People ask why there’s more men than women in my industry, this is why.

Same as you OP I had the hand up the skirt at school multiple times (then got called frigid for smacking them away) - bra straps pinged with rulers. Followed on foot and in the car at various times. Leered at, boobs grabbed, smacked on the arse by a customer at work... and despite all of that I know that so many experience so much worse. No one should experience this, but yes for many women it's been an ongoing thing, the hypervigilance never leaves.

I have been horrified to see a man watching my then 13 year old son in a predatory way at a festival (son looks much older than he is but still) ...he clocked me watching him and backed off. It's all so fucking depressing.