***TW*** Sexual intimidation - To think that this is what almost every woman goes through.

I had a senior partner in my magic circle firm earnestly assess my figure “perfect” apparently and he went on to detail why 🙄. Thought I was going to be given career advice 🙄

Many many years ago one summer evening just after my sister had passed her driving test we decided to go for a spin in her new car . Being young , just for a laugh we decided to go turn the tables and beep at men and wolf whistle at them the way they did countless times to us ( and worse)

It was surprising to see their reactions a lot of them didn't like it one bit ! I only hope they thought twice about doing it themselves.

I don’t think anyone, man or woman should have to go through this. I’d like to think things have moved on a bit though, I remember as a teen in the 90’s it was commonplace for lads to shout from cars, having your bum pinched in a crowd and lads trying to grind up against you in clubs. I remember having to rescue my friend in a club in Greece (from English men) who pinned her to a wall and were feeling her up! Appalling behaviour.

Yep. I remember taking my daughter on the train when she was about 13. She walked ahead up the platform away from me while I was fiddling with my bag. By the time I caught up to her a pedo pervert had zeroed in on her and was hanging around close to her. I walked up staring at him and he beetled off. At the shops I was forever glaring at creepy men staring at her. It starts when we are children and it never, ever ends.

I remember the time my teen daughter told me about a man persistently staring at her on a bus and I had to explain this is what her life would be like now. It broken my heart.

This is very true.

The surface motivation with ‘hot’ women vrs ‘fat’, ‘old’ or ‘ugly’ women might be different-

For example- my wife has experienced as much male harassment/SA/violence as me, and she has always been extremely overweight and not conventionally attractive to men… it seems like they expect her to be grateful for ANY male attention because in their view she clearly doesn’t deserve to be admired, appreciated or valued.

Where as ‘hot’ women are like a prize to them.

But at the end of the day it’s still down to showing their ‘power’ over women.

I don't feel like I've had many instances of this but it could just be like others have said where certain things are normalised. Such as going out drinking (not something I do often now) and men dancing on you, was dancing with my sister and a man grabbed my hand and tried to lead me away. A friend from work was actually fireman lifted by a man who tried to carry her off!
Where I live I take the dog out at night and never feel I can't go.
I was in London a month or so ago and walking back to the hotel with my husband. There were lots of people and we walked past a man at the bus stop. He then started walking behind us. I asked my husband when we were in the hotel about it and he hadn't even noticed the man. I had immediately tensed, put my hand on my bag and pulled it to the front of me and was looking at his shadow to judge where he was as he felt really close. This was all done in a few seconds and was pretty much an unconscious reaction.

I'm 61 now and have experienced this at different times, in different forms in every decade. First time in 1980s with a driving instructor most recent with a colleague of my DH, highly respectable etc who visiting out house. He stood far too close rubbing against me and being generally 'handsy' (his wife was there). Also recently witnessed a gay guy doing similar to female guest at hen doo. Unfortunately the consencous among the other guests (younger that I) was that it couldn't be harmful because he's not sexually attracted to women. Talked to my gay son about it who explained it is not uncommon among certain gay men for whom it is a power trip. They do it to either sex and has nothing to do with sexual attraction. It should not be tolerated.

I used to think that things has improved for women but more and more I see it is just surface deep.

It has very little to do with your age or how attractive you are. It's about power

I disagree, I tho I you are unusual- and lucky. I was 11 when a boy at school and gave me a ‘nipple cripple’.
I still remember the shame.

@Zodfa

Men do this because they're bullies, and bullies are very careful about who they bully and when. I imagine some women just give off some kind of vibe that they're not worth the risk? Which might be why not everyone experiences it.

I think you have a point.

I’m mid-forties and I suffered direct harassment a lot as a young girl and teenager (it also started when I was so young the men were clearly paedophiles, the first time was a man in a park in Paris making sexual motions and mouthing stuff at me when I was still in primary, I was eleven and looked it). Between 12-18 I was groped numerous times, sexually assaulted at work, followed home by a customer, ogled and harassed by more than one teacher, asked some really weird stuff by my aunt’s middle-aged neighbour (a father of four girls), asked out in my school uniform by a grown-up bus driver, groped and aggressively questioned about my sex life by many a random man and cat-called constantly.

However, by the time I was in my twenties I was properly ‘hot’ (sexist term but relevant to male perception) and while I was still catcalled from moving cars
and stared at, I no longer got the weirdo approaches. Was asked out a few times by people who shouldn’t have asked but not overtly harassed at work or pestered in bars. My friends said I scared most men, but my theory is these sort of dickheads are also somewhat afraid of good-looking adult women and the prospect of consequences /mockery/rejection doesn’t appeal. Causing confusion or intimidation does.

You are very lucky.

Neither would I - male or female though! I also wouldn't go to some random woman's house alone either which lots of people on here would probably do.

My work requires me to be in/out of peoples homes and I always tell someone where I'm going and when to expect me back:m.

I thought the same when I watched it

horrific and not right. When the poor lad was talking about it in his work place I just kept thinking “your lucky that’s where it stopped”

mad really isn’t it.

@strangewomenlyinginponds Maybe we need female only carriages as they have in Japan? We obviously shouldn't have to and it's a double edged sword in Japan - pleased they've introduced it but sad they had to.

I agree OP - I've not watched the Spacey story yet but I also recognise your description from many points over my lifetime. It still has power that many men have never experienced this at all, when most women will have (and often more than once) by the time they reach 20.

Honestly I was just scared, then angry then fed up and so over it :( certainly better than when I was17 though and a man was masturbating at me on a bus and I fled and told nobody :(

Yep and London Transport says over a third of female passengers have been sexually assaulted.

It's absolutely commonplace. Any woman who's not experienced it is incredibly fortunate.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/18/at-least-33-of-women-suffer-sexual-offences-while-commuting-btp-finds

Yet we are called unreasonable when we say we don't what men who think they are women in our toilets, in our safe spaces, heading up rape organisations or self help groups, in rape crisis centres, in prisons. In fact ANYWHERE that are for biological women and girls. Why is it reframed around a man's needs?

@strangewomenlyinginponds That must have felt so empowering for you. Well done. And sorry you had that experience.

I think the blunt reality in most cases is that these women are just not attractive. I believe that the drivers behind "healthy" and "unhealthy" sexual attention are pretty much the same.

So, bottom line, I got up and started shouting "There's a man flashing his cock on the train!" down the phone to my husband as we had been chatting about what to do about dinner. The flasher was pretending to scratch himself through a hole in his trousers conveniently next to his pathetic penis, which he was flicking backwards and forwards. There's more to it, but that's the crux of it.

I created such an enormous fuss and people buzzing round that he basically ran away at the next station.

I would definitely not recommend that or any other form of engagement though. It was quite a busy train, and I reacted without thinking. Always follow your intuition, if I'd been on my own I most likely wouldn't have done that, I'd have ran away and tried to get help.

@fieldsofbutterflies I don't do any of those things. I frequently walk home alone at night. I wouldn't invite a Facebook market place seller into the house though.

I was on a day out with my partner and my then 16 year old daughter.

It was a nice little village, not too busy but a few adults, couples and families milling about.

My daughter was standing a few feet away from us amd so not obviously with us. Two men approached her asking her to take a photo of them on her phone.

Of course that's a completely innocuous and commonplace occurrence - asking a stranger to take a photo of you but there were so many other people they could have asked. Why choose the apparently lone teen girl..?

Of course, this wasn't a sexual assault and so doesn't fit into any specific margarine of such but even so...

Genuinely, no, I've never done those things.

I have had a couple of dodgy experiences with men but it hasn't changed how I live my life.