Reasonable to expect a surgeon to do this?

@arethereanyleftatall

Of course, and it's up to you about boundaries. But there's got to be a more pleasant way of doing it.

I'd never write a text like that. Then again I'd genuinely have been worried about what unsafe arrangements my feckless, unreliable ex would have made.

One of my surgical friends was a widower and a single Dad for a number of years, though he has since remarried. He had a live in nanny or I don't think it would have been possible for him to continue in his work role.

Great post @AgeingDoc

There is a huge amount of deification going on.

My DBro is pretty egotistical, and also very focused (to the exclusion of everything when he's dealing with a patient. He nearly missed the birth of his last DC). However, he has a lot more flexibility than you might think, certainly more than a teacher, say, or someone clocking in, like to a factory, and he also throws money at the issue too (childminder in the house 7 - 7).

There's absolutely a balance that can be struck.

Also, in OPs defence a lot of surgeons are quite arrogant types. I'm very grateful for the surgeries they've performed on me, but I wouldn't want to marry one!

It wasn't a lovely/not lovely situation. It was a laying down my boundaries situation. Knowing full well what would happen every week if I didn't. It's different when you're married, sure, flexible if possible.
Not the same when you're divorced.

Op - decide what you're happy with, and let him know your expectations early on.

@RobBeckettsGiantTeeth please stop being so bloody nasty.

Are there surgeons who are single parents? Presumably there must be some (although I know there aren't that many female surgeons). What do they do?

I suspect the OP would not be getting anywhere near as much of a hard time if her ex didn't have that double whammy of godlikeness - being both a man and a surgeon.
As an anaesthetist I've met a lot of surgeons in my time. They are just people. Some are harder working than others. Some are really nice people, others are egotistical bastards. Some are even women. But not one of them spends every moment of the working week doing life saving work that cannot be delayed or delegated. Not one.
We don't even know what branch of surgery the OP's ex works in - some have a substantially bigger out of hours workload than others - or what size and type of hospital he works in. But wherever he is he will have some junior staff and colleagues- he isn't one man holding the NHS up as if he is Atlas.
Consultant job plans are divided into PAs - programmed activities - and these can be for direct patient care, so things like theatre sessions, ward rounds and clinics which are often set in time and place and supporting PAs for admin, study, audit, research and so on which are often not. Unless things have changed in the last couple of years since I retired, every Consultant is entitled to a minimum of 1.5 SPAs a week - that's 6 hours - and if you have an additional non clinical role, more. Whilst that work needs to be done, a lot of it doesn't need to be done in the hospital or even in the time slot nominally allocated on the job plan. Obviously you can't take patient info out of the hospital but if you're writing a presentation, sorting the duty rota or a wide variety of other stuff you don't actually have to be sat in your office 9-5 to get it done. I used to have a non clinical day on a Tuesday and I did need to be in my office for quite a lot of my work, but by going in at 7am I could get it done in plenty of time to pick my DS up and take him to his sport. Nobody cared when I actually did my admin as long as it got done and I'd say that applies to the vast majority of Consultants. You can go in early, stay late, do it on Sunday morning, after your kids are asleep or whatever, and that's what most Consultants who are mothers do in my experience. There's no reason why fathers can't also do that.
Some roles have more flexibility than others obviously, but if the OP's ex really has no potential ever to ever deal with childcare then he'll be the first Consultant I've ever met that that is true of. He's either very unlucky to have such a totally relentless work load and really shitty colleagues who will never help him out, or maybe lucky that he has never had to take responsibility for his children before and now he doesn't want to. Could be either I suppose, but were I a betting woman I know where I'd put my money. Of course it's not easy juggling a medical career (or many other careers)and parenthood but plenty of us manage it.

My DBro is a consultant - obs/gynae so he has a list once a week, as well as clinics & SIL is a GP, who works p/t.

They spend a fortune on wraparound & other care.

On her working days, he has more flexibility than her, except his list day. He'll take the kids to school, can often do school- / kids-related things. As a consultant (in Ireland), he is only answerable really to himself / patients ie no clocking in or out, no boss! He works v hard, in most weekends, even if not on call, list days are at least 12 hours straight surgery.

But he can move things around or block off time, on some days.

However on a list day he is basically uncontactable & someone would have to be at death's door before he'd be available.

So in OP's situation, there's absolutely some flex, though not at any point / time, most likely.

What’s the custody and cms arrangements like
if they live with you I’m guessing it’s an 80/20 split do thinking school runs on your days would be down to you

@RobBeckettsGiantTeeth

It is bonkers. It's still a job. And sometimes, family emergencies come first.

Obviously not to be taken lightly. But sometimes, it's necessary.

What mythical infallible back up plan would you propose? 🤷🏻‍♀️

it was very soon afterwards that he texted me he couldn't pick the girls up when he was due to. I responded 'not sure why you're texting me about it. Organise a taxi/ childminder and don't ask me again

How lovely

YANBU to expect them to make every effort to meet the arrangements made. But a bit of give & take regardless of roles is hardly too much to expect? My ex is a useless abusive arse, and I wouldn't send that (be pointless anyway, as he does / did nothing).

@RobBeckettsGiantTeeth where have I suggested I'd pick a child up if they had a cold?!!

As I said, 2 kids in full time childcare since under 6 months old, between them they've had less than 10 days off school/nursery in 8 years.

So far I've been lucky that none of them have been short notice and on a theatre day, but if one of them fell out of a tree at school and broke their arm for example then yes, if my husband was unavailable then of course I would go pick them up, irrespective of what patients I had waiting (although as already discussed it would be rare not to be able to find a colleague to cover).

Who on earth am I suddenly going to ring, to ask to drive to school and collect said injured child, irrespective of payment?!

The NHS is not on its knees because of the health of its consultants kids, nor do I think you genuinely believe that.

Not bonkers at all. If a surgeon cancelled my appointment for childcare reasons, absolutely I'd be making a complaint about it. Perhaps you've never had to live in constant pain, or put all your faith in an appointment you've had to wait months or years for only to have it cancelled.

She's a surgeon, I'm sure she can figure out and afford a way of having her child collected.

@RobBeckettsGiantTeeth

Honestly your posts are bonkers

How would someone like @welshweasel have standby care available for the very rare occasion when they might have an emergency needing their child being collected?

It's like any other job. Of course, a surgeon won't cancel an appointment or their list on a whim. Sometimes they have to, in most cases colleagues will cover, sometimes, rarely, they can't.

Jfc no wonder so many surgeons think theyre gods gift with so many people fawning over them on this thread.

Op - you are not being unreasonable at all.

He can't come out of surgery sometimes, but what he absolutely can and should do, is have a backup plan which he pays for, which isn't you, if it falls on his days.

When I got divorced, yes, to a surgeon, it was very soon afterwards that he texted me he couldn't pick the girls up when he was due to. I responded 'not sure why you're texting me about it. Organise a taxi/ childminder and don't ask me again.'

Sure, if we're talking about people with cancer, of course a timely appointment or surgical intervention is less important than a child with a cold. 🙄

Seriously?! That's what you think? No wonder the NHS is already on its knees if its surgeons think it's acceptable to cancel appointments and operations because of childcare issues. No it isn't.

You're a surgeon, so I'm sure you can afford to pay someone to pick up and look after your child for you if needs be.

So it's not beyond the realms of possibility Op

@RobBeckettsGiantTeeth no I'm not an oncologist, I'm a surgeon, hopefully one with more compassion than you seem to have!

Do you honestly suggest I pay for a full time nanny to be available just on the off chance that one of my kids needed collecting from school?

In 8 years of parenting I can count on two hands the number of days they have been too unwell to attend school/nursery so it wouldn't make any financial sense to do so!

In the extremely unlikely event I had to cancel a patient, they would get a profuse apology and be rebooked within a week.

Even oncologists get ill sometimes you know, doctors are not superhuman, nor are we paid good enough salaries to employ standby childcare!

Yes his job will typically start early and end late.

Therefore he needs to pay for childcare for his half of caring duties.

If I'd been waiting for six months for an appointment with a consultant for a debilitating medical condition and I got to the hospital and found out it was cancelled because they'd left early to pick up their child, I'd be making an official complaint about it.

Yes, the child has to be picked up, but you can't cancel peoples' crucial appointments to do it. You'd have to get someone else to do it. Paid for, if necessary.

Christ, I hope you're not an oncologist!

It’s not that sad. It’s not just doctors/HCPs as others have said. Teachers for example don’t get to go to their own kids school stuff at all. I’m off today as I knew on advance she had a school thing and DH is on call so I booked annual leave to go.

The way I see it there’s a big difference between expecting surgeon exH to finish work every Tuesday at 3pm to take DC to brownies - probably not going to happen or do 9am drop offs and him not stepping up for emergencies and wrap around drop offs.

If you spend enough money you can have childcare to suit whatever shift pattern you want. It may mean that on his days DC are in childcare for a long period and it would be unreasonable to object to that. It may be if he is the emergency response that he sends a relative or friend to pick them up of they are ill not him or that if “emergency “ is a missing swim kit then DC has to sit out swimming and get told off as he won’t be dropping it off but those are the common experiences of may children with working parents as you will find with your job getting busier - neither of you will be able to drop everything for the “last minute PTA bake sale volunteer needed“ stuff and the Dc will manage just fine

@Whatevershallidowithmylife no I clearly wouldn't pick a child up from nursery or school for a snotty nose, nor would they expect me to. But on the very odd occasion where a child vomits, or injures themselves to the point of needing medical attention, then as a last resort I would! If it was on a non clinical day it wouldn't be an issue, ditto on my husband's WFH day. My husband works 2 hours away so if we got a call when I was in theatre and he was at work, I would do what I could to leave asap. Sometimes there would be a colleague who could step in and finish the list, or if I had a senior registrar they may be able to cover.

But if there was no one, then yes I would cancel the rest of the patients and go collect my child. What else do you expect me to do?

I thought that too. I bet they were thrilled.

This.

It sounds as though you have not yet agreed divorce terms or a financial settlement ? Other than resentment which is understandable, what do you actually WANT? Full custody, EOW, 50:50? A financial settlement that allows for wraparound care at your home? A family nanny or au pair who works between your homes one week on, one week off?

For now I think I would ask the advice of your solicitor on what records you need to build up ahead of a mediation or whatever process you are heading into ? If your ex is looking for 50:50 but fails to make any sort of adequate planning and constantly dumps you in it, you will have multiple examples of this. Don't get into a slanging match, document it.
If you want 50:50 so you have some sort of life outside your children then, what are the levers you can pull to illustrate that on his clinic days for example, it's perfectly practical for him to plan his days and look after his children. In practice though if they are quite small, having the kids overnight if he's straight into surgery the next day isn't going to be practical so I guess how do you plan for an evolving model and cost as they get older.