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Original poster

Muslim vote (the group, not people generally)

240 replies

Noicant · 07/05/2024 08:22

I was looking at the list of 18 demands from Muslim Vote to Labour and on that list they had

  1. Remove the archaic 'spiritual influence' offence from statute.'

I’m not being funny but they want clergy to be able to direct how people vote. Please tell me Labour are going to just ignore this, I’m not sure that many people want their Imam telling them how to vote either, I know if I were Muslim I’d just ignore him.

I have no particular strong feelings about the Israel stuff, it’s to be expected from the group but that one surprised me a bit.

OP posts:
Whenwillitgetwarm · 07/05/2024 19:18

Looks like we’re going to get these threads more and more in the run up to the election. Tory HQ working overtime. Desperate to do the Muslim = antisemitism = Labour.

It won’t work this time. The majority of the British public will not be basing their vote on the Middle East, no matter how much American funded think tanks backed by Evangelists, Republicans and small state Libertarians want it. Keep your culture war bullshit. It’s so transparent that I’m cringing.

Whenwillitgetwarm · 07/05/2024 19:12

Peachoolongtea · 07/05/2024 16:26

East London is full of flyers advertising their events…I for one have heard of them…it’s like saying no one has heard of ukip

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Where in East London?

CaravaggiosCat · 07/05/2024 18:43

Teentaxidriver · 07/05/2024 18:13

Meanwhile, various Islamic lobbyist groups are working hard to bring a blasphemy law indirectly into practice in the UK.

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I really bloody hope not...

Original poster
Noicant · 07/05/2024 18:37

Even the adoption of the definition of Islamaphobia https://www.camden.gov.uk/documents/20142/4794543/APPG+Definition+of+Islamophobia.pdf/f747d5e0-b4e2-5ba6-b4c7-499bd102d5aa
they want is a bit ridiculous. It includes not saying that Islam was spread by the sword or subjugation of minority groups under their rule. Thats just historical fact, thats not an insult. I wouldn’t hold it against any muslim person living today anymore than I would slavery against a white briton. It happened, no-one alive today is responsible for it.

I think Labour have already adopted it, some very reasonable points in there but some of it is just silly and is a free speech/matter of opinion issue. Theres talk of Labour integrating it into equalities legislation.

https://www.camden.gov.uk/documents/20142/4794543/APPG+Definition+of+Islamophobia.pdf/f747d5e0-b4e2-5ba6-b4c7-499bd102d5aa

OP posts:
IClaudine · 07/05/2024 18:22

Please explain @Teentaxidriver

Teentaxidriver · 07/05/2024 18:13

Labyrinthian · 07/05/2024 13:39

Yeah .... You might also enjoy learning our constitution was actually written in conjunction with the church, so quite a lot of clauses would give you pause for thought! It needs a good rework but we are having a lot of referendums over next few years to work it out and erase that a little bit. We did get rid of blasphemy there recently though!it is ridiculous

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Meanwhile, various Islamic lobbyist groups are working hard to bring a blasphemy law indirectly into practice in the UK.

pointythings · 07/05/2024 17:57

I don't think many people want sectarian politics, but like others I find the prejudices towards Islam disturbing. Just as not all Christians hold the same views, nor do most Muslims.

Original poster
Noicant · 07/05/2024 17:47

I think entryism is an issue, people may have different views on momentum for example but they did hi-jack Labour pretty well for a bit. I’m not sure thats where the bulk of traditional Labour party voters are. See also militant. Or TRA’s and well everything.

Small groups can be pretty insidious and unseen by most people until a bit of legislation pops up somewhere or guidance changes due to special interest groups and you had no idea there was even a discussion being had. Learned that lesson the hard way over the last few years. It’s always some well meaning fool in the civil service/government/political party/ NHS helping out.

To be clear I am not talking about Muslims as a group, I’m talking about this specific campaigning group of people.

I really don’t want to see sectarian politics. It’s toxic wherever it’s found for everyone involved. The group has called this list demands in exchange for votes basically. Who are they to guarantee votes to a political party!?

OP posts:
Original poster
Noicant · 07/05/2024 17:37

Labyrinthian · 07/05/2024 13:08

Would it help you to know that the Catholic church regularly tells people how to vote on issues? It's certainly a big thing in Ireland where the church has openly told everyone in sermons and published materials on how to vote in 3 recent constitutional amendments (written constitution here so we have referendums for changes). Some people see it as important that the organisation providing their spiritual or moral guidance guides them on how to look at the laws governing their country - just like political parties or unions might provide guidance.

It’s appalling, I don’t want the god bothers of any stripe encouraging any of their funny ideas about abortions, gay people etc etc.

But I concede for the religious there are things they consider to be important to their faith and they can vote how they like. The problem is when priests use it to say “if you vote this way you are sinning and you know what happens to sinners.” What if your priest takes a view on taxation, economic/political alliances, is it the word of god you are hearing or the word of whatever person runs your place of worship?

OP posts:
Hoppinggreen · 07/05/2024 17:19

Peachoolongtea · 07/05/2024 16:26

East London is full of flyers advertising their events…I for one have heard of them…it’s like saying no one has heard of ukip

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you know there are places that aren't East London don't you?

ViscountessMelbourne · 07/05/2024 17:04

EclairsAndDoughnuts · 07/05/2024 16:27

This isn't the first time that I've Voting Numbers interesting on a "controversial" thread.

If we didn't have access to them and only had the posts to go on, we might be forgiven for thinking that the majority of posters disagree with the OP.

In fact, the majority of those voting-but not posting- overwhelmingly agree with the OP.

The silent majority agree with OP but the most vocal-those who post-make it look as if the opposite is true.

Thank goodness we can see the voting statistics.

Really? I can't see any posters on this thread disagreeing with the OP and saying "I think that the spiritual influence clause is outdated and should be repealed: priests of all religions should be free to tell their parishioners that it's their god-ordained duty to vote for X"

People are talking around the issue: because they have more interesting things to say as well as YABU/YANBU.

peanutbuttertoasty · 07/05/2024 17:02

TakeMe2Insanity · 07/05/2024 16:26

Labour made very clear they don’t give a damn about the muslim (the actual people) vote so I doubt they’ll even blink at this!

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Why do you think this?

ValueAddedTaxonomy · 07/05/2024 16:54

Really shocking to see the Islamophobia from some posters on this thread. Especially the claim that "Islam is deeply antisemitic ". That is bullshit.

Humdingerydoo · 07/05/2024 16:46

Bonkers demand though, OP. We should be teaching critical thinking at schools instead so people can learn how to make their own informed decisions.

Humdingerydoo · 07/05/2024 16:40

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I'm not idealistic or uninformed and don't have an agenda by saying this - but stop with the Islamophobia. It helps no one.

You can disagree with aspects of a religion but those kind of blanket statements are not even remotely ok. It's also incredibly disrespectful.

Kind regards,
A pro-Israel Jew who has made numerous enemies of various MNetters on the conflict in middle east board

DramaLlamaBangBang · 07/05/2024 16:37

TakeMe2Insanity · 07/05/2024 16:26

Labour made very clear they don’t give a damn about the muslim (the actual people) vote so I doubt they’ll even blink at this!

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And nor should they. They need to devise policies for everyone. If Muslims decide to vote on those policies, then fine. If they don't, also fine. Can you imagine if churches had demanded for that spirituality clause to be repealed, or for special treatment? The Greens, the Left etc would have been outraged at the very thought.

Peachoolongtea · 07/05/2024 16:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

EclairsAndDoughnuts · 07/05/2024 16:27

This isn't the first time that I've Voting Numbers interesting on a "controversial" thread.

If we didn't have access to them and only had the posts to go on, we might be forgiven for thinking that the majority of posters disagree with the OP.

In fact, the majority of those voting-but not posting- overwhelmingly agree with the OP.

The silent majority agree with OP but the most vocal-those who post-make it look as if the opposite is true.

Thank goodness we can see the voting statistics.

TakeMe2Insanity · 07/05/2024 16:26

skippy67 · 07/05/2024 08:43

Labour are going to ignore this. HTH.

Labour made very clear they don’t give a damn about the muslim (the actual people) vote so I doubt they’ll even blink at this!

Peachoolongtea · 07/05/2024 16:26

OnBoardTheHeartOfGold · 07/05/2024 10:40

This shouldn't even get publicity because it's quite ridiculous. I'll bet the majority of Muslims haven't even ever heard of them.

East London is full of flyers advertising their events…I for one have heard of them…it’s like saying no one has heard of ukip

HermioneWeasley · 07/05/2024 16:24

It’s fascinating how focused the demands are on Israel. Nothing about the Chinese genocide of Uighur Muslims, the persecution of the Rohingya, the appalling human rights abuses of Muslim women in Afghanistan and Iran. Nothing. only when Jews oppress Muslims does it give rise to demands about foreign policy.

Teentaxidriver · 07/05/2024 16:21

ValueAddedTaxonomy · 07/05/2024 13:11

Or perhaps they asked for it because they feel the law curtails the freedom of expression of imams and other people in a position of spiritual influence. IDK, but I certainly don't see any reason, other than a kind of knee-jerk fear of Islam, to leap to any 'chillling' conclusion.

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Yup, do you know what ISIS did to Christians? Do you know what the Koran says about non-believers? Maybe educate yourself before commenting.

Teentaxidriver · 07/05/2024 16:18

Zimunya · 07/05/2024 13:46

"Religion has no place whatsoever in the laws and governance of a civilised society"

I totally agree with this. And yet Bishops from the Anglican Church sit in the House of Lords...

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Bishops need to be removed from the upper house.

Teentaxidriver · 07/05/2024 16:17

VestibuleVirgin · 07/05/2024 08:49

I know if I were Muslim I’d just ignore him.
No, if you were a Muslim you would not ignore the Iman
And when you state 'I’m not being funny but they want clergy to be able to direct how people vote.', that is wrong. If you read the demand, it is to remove spiritual influence. They want NO spiritual influence on our statute (however, the actual demand makes no sense as we do not know what 'statute' they are referring to as we do not have a written constitution.

This is wrong. They want to repeal the law that prevents priests, etc telling worshippers how to vote.

Hoppinggreen · 07/05/2024 16:08

Bululu · 07/05/2024 15:58

I would say ignore at your own peril. I want to come back to this thread in a few years time.

Dooooooommmmmmmmeddddd we're all doooooooommmmmmmed!!!!!!!